I’ve seen thousands of improv shows in Austin, Chicago, New York, and elsewhere, and I can count on two hands the number of times I’ve seen a realistic sex scene, by which I mean a believable scene that takes place immediately before, immediately after, or during sex.
One obvious reason for this is that the level of physical trust between the improvisers has to be so high. Dave and Rachel did one of the few Austin scenes I can remember in which a couple actually acted like people who made love regularly — they were talking in bed (i.e., chairs against the backstage wall), and he was amorous and she wasn’t, but even though nothing sexual happened in the scene it was believable that these people slept together.
And you’re like, well, duh, Ratliff, they DO sleep together. But I think that’s a little lazy. I think the other reason this never happens is that nobody’s willing to make the commitment.
(Edit: I should point out that I’m talking about stage sex between improv partners who have worked together long enough to completely trust each other in other respects. I am NOT suggesting that the casts of Maestro or Stool Pigeon start freely groping each other.)
It’s not that I’m so eager to see people humping each other onstage. It’s that as it is, bringing sex into a scene almost inevitably kills whatever connection and realism have been established and turns it into a dirty joke.
To be fair, you can argue that the same thing happens with stage violence. For the most part, people are not going to perform it realistically, so it necessarily undermines the believability of the scene.
But there are practical reasons to mitigate stage violence: we don’t want to physically hurt each other, and because we’re doing comedy we don’t necessarily want to see the realistic effects of that violence.
Neither of those reasons applies to stage sex. (If you don’t understand that realistic sex can be hilariously funny, you’re either spectacularly un-self-aware or you haven’t had enough of it.)
Over the years I’ve seen countless onstage improv injuries and deaths and not a single committed representation of lovemaking. What’s wrong with this picture?
(Note to everyone I play with: don’t panic. This is not a mission statement. I’m just saying.)
sex and intimacy onstage
Discussion of the art and craft of improvisation.
Moderators: arclight, happywaffle, bradisntclever
sex and intimacy onstage
"I'm not a real aspirational cat."
-- TJ Jagodowski
-- TJ Jagodowski
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- Curtis + computer Offline
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I think that "sex" is so loaded with peculiar anxieties and emotional valences that it's hard to take an artful approach to the subject. You'll naturally be twice as conscious and doubtful as you would be in a normal scene. "Is my scene partner OK with this? Am I actually exploiting him/her? Am I coming across like some kind of creep? The audience is giggling, but are those good giggles or bad giggles?" Improv scenes about sex are hard for the same reason that sex is hard: the need to be open and vulnerable has to co-exist with the pressure to be competent.
It's a little easier to deal with bad sex, because you can make comedy of it in fairly obvious and satisfying ways without going too broad. Good sex is the real challenge; trying to represent it in art is a journey through the narrow canal between "the Scylla of schlock" and "the Charybdis of pornography" (as Martin Amis once put it ... a hugely talented guy who's written quite a few bad sex scenes himself*).
That said, I'd love to see a show in which the performers consciously designed to work some sophisticated, realistic takes on sex into the story every night. I think a lot of the inherent difficulties would be minimized if that was established up front. A lot of the awkwardness of improv sex scenes comes in the early moments when the performers have to decide that, yes, OK, uh .... I guess this is going to be a scene about sex, huh? OK? Are you sure you're OK with that? I mean, I'm OK if you are, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable, uh, ah ...
* For more fun with good writers going wrong when their subject is sex, please see here. It's nothing to do with improv but instructive, nevertheless.
It's a little easier to deal with bad sex, because you can make comedy of it in fairly obvious and satisfying ways without going too broad. Good sex is the real challenge; trying to represent it in art is a journey through the narrow canal between "the Scylla of schlock" and "the Charybdis of pornography" (as Martin Amis once put it ... a hugely talented guy who's written quite a few bad sex scenes himself*).
That said, I'd love to see a show in which the performers consciously designed to work some sophisticated, realistic takes on sex into the story every night. I think a lot of the inherent difficulties would be minimized if that was established up front. A lot of the awkwardness of improv sex scenes comes in the early moments when the performers have to decide that, yes, OK, uh .... I guess this is going to be a scene about sex, huh? OK? Are you sure you're OK with that? I mean, I'm OK if you are, but I don't want to make you uncomfortable, uh, ah ...
* For more fun with good writers going wrong when their subject is sex, please see here. It's nothing to do with improv but instructive, nevertheless.
- TexasImprovMassacre Offline
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I can't realistically sex up girls on stage because i'll give them girl boners, and that's embarrassing for them.
Is it a question of trust? I think if you trust each other enough to know that everything you're doing is towards creating a reality, then is it really that weird? I guess it might be weird, but not impermissible. I agree with ratliff that you shouldn't walk into maestro and start feeling up jason vines, but perhaps its a troupes responsibility to set the boundaries?
It is sad though that there's more physical violence than there is physical sex. Maybe when I am in austin this summer I can gather a group to perform mine and steph's idea for a full length improvised porno entitled Planet Cum Island.
Is it a question of trust? I think if you trust each other enough to know that everything you're doing is towards creating a reality, then is it really that weird? I guess it might be weird, but not impermissible. I agree with ratliff that you shouldn't walk into maestro and start feeling up jason vines, but perhaps its a troupes responsibility to set the boundaries?
It is sad though that there's more physical violence than there is physical sex. Maybe when I am in austin this summer I can gather a group to perform mine and steph's idea for a full length improvised porno entitled Planet Cum Island.
goddamn take me to that motherfuckin' island!
this is odd. i am a horny summabitch. and yet i can't recall ever doing anything on stage that remotely resembles true physical intimacy (either before, during or after). for me personally, i would bet this does come down to a lack of trust. lack of trust that the other person will just go with it and lack of trust that i can stay away from a dick joke.
also, perhaps my inability to behave sexually honest on stage is related to my inability to pursue sexual honesty in real life. i am not sleeping with any pussy other than my cat. i have a fear of rejection that is almost crippling when it comes to amorous pursuits. all of the things related to sex apart from the actual performance of sex itself terrify me. (when it CUMS to the performance, you better watch yo mouth cause you gonna be spittin profanities that would earn you a slap or two from your moms)
i.e. dick joke
this is odd. i am a horny summabitch. and yet i can't recall ever doing anything on stage that remotely resembles true physical intimacy (either before, during or after). for me personally, i would bet this does come down to a lack of trust. lack of trust that the other person will just go with it and lack of trust that i can stay away from a dick joke.
also, perhaps my inability to behave sexually honest on stage is related to my inability to pursue sexual honesty in real life. i am not sleeping with any pussy other than my cat. i have a fear of rejection that is almost crippling when it comes to amorous pursuits. all of the things related to sex apart from the actual performance of sex itself terrify me. (when it CUMS to the performance, you better watch yo mouth cause you gonna be spittin profanities that would earn you a slap or two from your moms)
i.e. dick joke
Y'all some cockblockers.TexasImprovMassacre wrote:I agree with ratliff that you shouldn't walk into maestro and start feeling up jason vines...
Seriously though...I never really thought about this until Ratliff brought it up. I now have a new goal. I want to be in a scene that is honest and realistic about sex. I'm hoping Ratliff will be there to see it. Hell, I hope Ratliff is in it.
"Have you ever scrapped high?" Jon Bolden "Stabby" - After School Improv
http://www.improvforevil.com
http://www.improvforevil.com
I think you really do have to trust someone for the "stage sex" thing, which is really more an intimacy thing. It's really easy to get giggly about it because it demands a comfort level (or really good acting) about your own sexuality. When you're in that situation in real life, it's easy enough to get all giggly and deflect. Onstage, it's way easier to make it less intimate, to go blue or gayballs or whatnot, to bring in the roommate or the dog and make it into something not about the two (or three, or classroom, whatever) that the dynamic was about originally.
That being said, I know from personal... experience... that Ratliff does good stage sexintimacy. RRRRROWL!
That being said, I know from personal... experience... that Ratliff does good stage sexintimacy. RRRRROWL!
Mairzy Doats and Doazy Doats and Little Lamzy Divey
I smell a Cagematch team.ratliff wrote:Be careful what you ask for.vine311 wrote:I want to be in a scene that is honest and realistic about sex. I'm hoping Ratliff will be there to see it. Hell, I hope Ratliff is in it.
"Have you ever scrapped high?" Jon Bolden "Stabby" - After School Improv
http://www.improvforevil.com
http://www.improvforevil.com
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- LisaJackson Offline
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- kaci_beeler Offline
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For me, I usually think about it in terms of how "it" (playing out a situation onstage) will serve the story, or fleshing out the portrayal of the characters and their relationships to the audience.
Sometimes we don't have to see that scene, but rather what comes before or after can be sufficient and often times just as powerful. Which I suppose is also what you're getting at.
I think it also depends on your groups goal for the show. What is the show presenting to the audience? What does the group want the audience to get out of the show?
In one of the Villainy shows PGraph did, we had a scenario in which a drunk and fairly simple whore was sent to a powerful duke by his enemies to ruin his reputation through engaging in sexual intercourse. They flirted for a bit before getting to the point where he would do the deed, and then he, suspecting foul play, instead cut out her tongue.
Why did we not see him make love to his wife, the queen, later in the story? It would be completely unnecessary. But there you have violence over love. Well, it was supposed to be that way, really, being the villain's story.
I anticipate the rebuttal that it is not always one's goal to tell a story. Even so, it is not always one's goal to be realistic, sympathetic, natural, or dramatic within in the confines of improvised scene work.
I don't think a lot of people even consider approaching such a scene as this. They may not care about what it would mean to do a scene like that. That's fine. I think we all have changing and shifting goals. This discussion has made me think about the topic more
Another thing that comes to my mind -- the idea of the realistic sexual scene as presented as entertainment is relatively modern. Given the wrong context such a scene presented in a show could be unnecessary, gratuitous, or forced.
Though, I definitely think what you're talking about is worth exploring.
A few months ago I wrote on the topic of improv and sexuality, and how it relates to my own life/development:
http://bellatrixamici.livejournal.com/284257.html
Sometimes we don't have to see that scene, but rather what comes before or after can be sufficient and often times just as powerful. Which I suppose is also what you're getting at.
I think it also depends on your groups goal for the show. What is the show presenting to the audience? What does the group want the audience to get out of the show?
In one of the Villainy shows PGraph did, we had a scenario in which a drunk and fairly simple whore was sent to a powerful duke by his enemies to ruin his reputation through engaging in sexual intercourse. They flirted for a bit before getting to the point where he would do the deed, and then he, suspecting foul play, instead cut out her tongue.
Why did we not see him make love to his wife, the queen, later in the story? It would be completely unnecessary. But there you have violence over love. Well, it was supposed to be that way, really, being the villain's story.
I anticipate the rebuttal that it is not always one's goal to tell a story. Even so, it is not always one's goal to be realistic, sympathetic, natural, or dramatic within in the confines of improvised scene work.
I don't think a lot of people even consider approaching such a scene as this. They may not care about what it would mean to do a scene like that. That's fine. I think we all have changing and shifting goals. This discussion has made me think about the topic more
Another thing that comes to my mind -- the idea of the realistic sexual scene as presented as entertainment is relatively modern. Given the wrong context such a scene presented in a show could be unnecessary, gratuitous, or forced.
Though, I definitely think what you're talking about is worth exploring.
A few months ago I wrote on the topic of improv and sexuality, and how it relates to my own life/development:
http://bellatrixamici.livejournal.com/284257.html
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- HerrHerr Offline
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I know it's possible, somehow, to have a sexual intercourse scene on stage without going all silly or way over the top, but
I haven't seen one yet. It's a scary place to go. For one thing, it's gonna be staged in some sense that is totally unreal
to actual sex.
Kissing? Now that's totally possible to do and I've seen some good kisses. I've had several kisses over the years. My
favorite was within a scene that had a shift in emotion between a husband and wife. Things were fairly normal, then
got contentious b/c they were trying to ride out a storm that might kill them both, and then they realized that their
only chance in surviving was to work together. An emotional shift occurred and then they kissed as the storm raged and the lights faded.
Sex, though? Man, I know it's possible to have an intimate discussion before sex or after sex...but the act itself with all
its space work...I don't know. Maybe off stage so the audience only hears it, but even then...
I really don't think the audience wantsto see it unless it's safe...and by safe, I mean obviously not real and hyperbolic in some way.
Like cartoons. Fritz the Cat?
I haven't seen one yet. It's a scary place to go. For one thing, it's gonna be staged in some sense that is totally unreal
to actual sex.
Kissing? Now that's totally possible to do and I've seen some good kisses. I've had several kisses over the years. My
favorite was within a scene that had a shift in emotion between a husband and wife. Things were fairly normal, then
got contentious b/c they were trying to ride out a storm that might kill them both, and then they realized that their
only chance in surviving was to work together. An emotional shift occurred and then they kissed as the storm raged and the lights faded.
Sex, though? Man, I know it's possible to have an intimate discussion before sex or after sex...but the act itself with all
its space work...I don't know. Maybe off stage so the audience only hears it, but even then...
I really don't think the audience wantsto see it unless it's safe...and by safe, I mean obviously not real and hyperbolic in some way.
Like cartoons. Fritz the Cat?
Sometimes it's a form of love just to talk to somebody that you have nothing in common with and still be fascinated by their presence.
--David Byrne
--David Byrne
The act... less interesting I think than the stuff that goes on around it. The pillow talk stuff is had to get authentic, if that's the direction you're going. I'm more interested in that, really. Miming the act itself, not so much, unless you're doing something unusual. Again, difficult.
I love when people can do the "everything buts", and that I don't see a lot of. Although... the possibilities of what you are saying while the partner is under the sheets are amusing, intellectually, at least. Monologue?
I love when people can do the "everything buts", and that I don't see a lot of. Although... the possibilities of what you are saying while the partner is under the sheets are amusing, intellectually, at least. Monologue?
Mairzy Doats and Doazy Doats and Little Lamzy Divey