Improv Sucks

Justin D. · Post by **Justin D.** » August 8th, 2008, 4:09 pm

So says David Spark.

I like how nonsensical most of his rant is and that it's so obviously fueled by bitterness. He hits upon a valid point every once in a while only to veer off wildly into odd bits that seem to be created by personal performance disappointments. It was way too silly to take offense at and just made me chuckle at the guy more than anything else.

Roy Janik · Post by **Roy Janik** » August 8th, 2008, 4:42 pm

Justin D. · Post by **Justin D.** » August 8th, 2008, 4:46 pm

An appropriate response, Roy.

arthursimone · Post by **arthursimone** » August 9th, 2008, 2:54 am

improv sucks

starkserious · Post by **starkserious** » August 10th, 2008, 2:48 pm

Different disciplines thats all. Both take a long time to get good at and the audience will always tell you how you are doing either in Improv or Stand Up. Improv has definitely helped me in Stand up and vice versa...I've discovered great premises and jokes doing improv.

Brian Boyko · Post by **Brian Boyko** » August 10th, 2008, 9:38 pm

baleeted

Brian Boyko · Post by **Brian Boyko** » August 10th, 2008, 11:07 pm

Hey Brian:

Thanks for your feedback on my article. I wrote that piece 12 years ago and
amazingly people are still commenting positive and negative about the piece.

I will say this about that piece.

I wrote that piece a very long time ago. Most of the stuff I said in it I
still agree with, but I'm a far more matured person today. Also, it was an
article very specific to the Chicago scene. In all the cities I've lived in,
there was never anything like the Chicago improv scene. It dominated stand
up.

I'm no longer a stand up. And I won't defend stand up. There's a lot of
really bad stand up.

As for improv, it's not for me. But I respect the people who create it for
writing and acting. Some of the funniest people I know did improv in
Chicago. And it's ironic that you sent this message, because I'm working on
a comedy business deal with someone I did improv with in Chicago.

I'm sorry if you thought my piece discouraged people from doing improv. I
believe I did explain why I thought improv had value (writing and creating
characters), but I didn't like it as a performance mechanism. Then again, I
also don't like opera.

David

I replied with a nasty letter asking him to explain what the hell he had against opera.

York99 · Post by **York99** » August 15th, 2008, 1:26 am

Justin Davis wrote:An appropriate response, Roy.

I didn't get it at first, but decided to click on the article afterwards. Perfect.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » August 15th, 2008, 9:29 am

I won't click, but I will say that the phrase "improv sucks" has about as much validity in my ears as "music sucks." It's just silly.

Justin D. · Post by **Justin D.** » August 15th, 2008, 10:25 am

kbadr wrote:I won't click, but I will say that the phrase "improv sucks" has about as much validity in my ears as "music sucks." It's just silly.

That's very close to what I say when I hear people say they don't like comic books. "To me, that's like saying 'I don't like music' or 'I don't like film' or 'I don't like books' or whatever other medium."

The guy's letter in response to Brian pretty much repeats what he says at the link. He doesn't think it's good or respectable as an art form or as an entertainment on its own, but he think it's good for preparing and brainstorming material to be used later.

Bah.

jennycarlson · Post by **jennycarlson** » August 15th, 2008, 6:41 pm

Justin Davis wrote:The guy's letter in response to Brian pretty much repeats what he says at the link. He doesn't think it's good or respectable as an art form or as an entertainment on its own, but he think it's good for preparing and brainstorming material to be used later.

Meh. Let him go work for Bernie Sahlins then.

mpbrockman · Post by **mpbrockman** » August 15th, 2008, 8:07 pm

Justin Davis wrote:
kbadr wrote:I won't click, but I will say that the phrase "improv sucks" has about as much validity in my ears as "music sucks." It's just silly.
That's very close to what I say when I hear people say they don't like comic books. "To me, that's like saying 'I don't like music' or 'I don't like film' or 'I don't like books' or whatever other medium."

Wait, isn't that two different things? I'm not much of a film fan, but I wouldn't say "film sucks". I'm just not a fan of the medium for a variety of personal reasons (for one, most put me directly to sleep). Nevertheless, I can respect the creativity, talent, chops and work that go into the making of a film.

Frank Zappa used to say something similar about books. "...even when I know the book is great... I read about 3 or 4 paragraphs and start to pass out."

So I would think it perfectly valid to personally not like a medium while still being able to acknowledge it's artistic merits.

jose · Post by **jose** » August 23rd, 2008, 2:18 pm

It's an old article written from a pretty bitter point of view (which I think the dude kind of cops to in his direct response).

There's also another "Improv Sucks" article written by Adam Felber that pops up from time to time, though, it's more concerned with the presentation of improv rather than the content, techniques, or as an artform (and there are some valid points).

Overall, though, Kareem hit the nail on the head - to write off an entire artform is really dumb.

Personally, improvisation is the art that I love and pursue with passion - I don't seek to have it validated, especially by random folks with deep seated grudges and biases.

About 5 or 6 years ago, the big question that some folks had was "How do we get (more) improv on tv?" and there seemed to be two subtexts running as that question's undercurrent, neither of which I was comfortable with or fond of:

"How do *I* get to be on tv?"

"How can we validate improv to the world at large?"

Fuck that.

My favorite quote regarding improv as art comes from Bob Dassie (and I can only paraphrase it from memory):

"I believe improv is an art. If you disagree, I'm not going to argue about it - go look at a painting instead."