Language, Scorsese, & Eminem

[sara farr]

Warning... this is a late night post/rant...

After watching Impro Theater LA this weekend, I realized how dumbed down my language has gotten since I started doing improv. I'm much less eloquent and much more vulgar than I used to be. I feel almost encouraged to -- at some point -- use obscene language in an improv show. As if I by not using obscene language when angry or frustrated, I would not really be letting go.

Call it effeciency or laziness, but society becomes more vulgar (common, ignorant, tasteless, coarse, AND obscene) with each new generation. Language used to be more flowery. Part of the reason was the current standard of decency -- and the directors willingness to work around the Ratings System which still being true to the class level. Another big part is tied to expanding media. Film production -- either viewed as the trend setter or trend surfer -- has changed the course of society's history. Film directors like Martin Scorsese -- who first represented the violent, gritty, lower classes, and their crude (less purtain) language in the light of them being "heroic".

This is in direct contrast to old movies from around the depression in which the upper classes were both vilified for being segregated and out of reach, and yet exalted as the ultimate goal. The same can be said of popularity of rap music. Angry and from the ghetto, Rap has bred a generation of young adults who have have lowered the bar for what society (popular culture) considers the standard of obsenity.

There is something to be said about comedy existing from the breaking of taboos, but as each new generation of improvisers enters the scene, the standard is lowered by their lowering the point quality given to average standards.

Most obscene rap possesses neither wit nor musicianship—only obscenity. By the standards of the Afro-American past, that is not enough to qualify as art. But by the standards of perverse modernism, it is.. ~Martha Bales

It's part of the American dream to be able to move from one class to the other, but language (along with computer skills) STILL seperate us.

I don't like to use vulgar language. I used to be able to find other, more intelligent ways to express myself when angry or upset or frustrated. I prefer colorful language -- like in the films the 1940s when filmmakers were afraid of the censors and so worked their way around directly referring to sex, drugs, and violence -- over the crude humor and graphic gore you see in today's entertainment.

[ratliff]

For every film director who worked around the restrictions on explicit language to create a piece of art, there were hundreds who hid their lack of ideas and imagination behind "flowery" or otherwise indirect language. The reason that cursing was embraced by writers and artists was that it symbolized an honesty and lack of pretense that had been lacking in mainstream culture. One way to control what subjects get discussed in public is to make rules about what words you get to use, as in the case of women's sexuality. The fact that obscenity is now grossly overused doesn't change the fact that many artists fought many hard battles over the right to use whatever language they wanted because they felt it would improve, not degrade, their art.

Martha Bales, whoever she is, can kiss my ass. Twice. I'm tired of hearing rap music blamed for the national obsession with money, violence, sex, and power instead of the other way around. 95 percent of all hiphop is crap, just like any other art form, but it's also the popular artform that (next to slam poetry) is the most in love with language, and a legitimate heir to the rich African-American rhetorical and vernacular traditions. (I don't even listen to it, but I know that much.) There are plenty of lousy black preachers around, but nobody uses them to argue that therefore all sermons in black churches are worthless.

For me, the degradation of language comes not from the use of vulgarity but from the misuse or disuse of everything else. Cursing, to me, is just one more sign of imprecision in language, like saying "like" or "you know," all three of which I do entirely too much. When people can't express themselves accurately, they fall back on stock phrases, which is how most people use obscenity.

That said, I will admit that just before I read this I was thinking about how much I cuss onstage and resolving to do it less. Shad Kunkle says that obscenity should only be used when emotion has reached such a pitch that normal language won't suffice, sort of like a song in a musical. By this standard, a curse word would almost never be uttered in a normal conversational tone onstage. I doubt I can hit that, but I do agree that cussing for the sake of cussing is distracting and undercuts the power of a scene, in the same way that it dilutes and distorts meaning in everyday conversation.

[Jeff]

Martha Bales, whoever she is, can kiss my ass. Twice.

That's how I felt when I read that quote. I pictured Martha as an imposing character from The Crucible. "Most obscene rap possesses neither wit nor musicianship." I don't understand whether she is calling all rap obscene or if she has defined what makes some rap obscene so that she may call that stuff "obscene rap." I also don't understand what measuring instrument she used to quantify how much wit and musicianship the songs "possess."

But yeah, cussin', it's got its place to be expressed as well as its place to be avoided.

[nadine]

Hmm. My language has definitely become dirtier since I joined improv. And it does spillover to other areas. And since I generally don't really think before I talk, I found myself swearing in front of a kid last weekend.

I don't think it's because of improv itself. But because a lot of improvisors swear, much more then my yuppie friends.

[York99]

My parents used to tell me not to curse because it's pedestrian and shows that you're not intelligent enough to think of anything better.

Fuck that.

[ESeufert]

I don't think I've ever cursed in a scene out of fear or desperation.

[Jules]

I am in agreement that language has changed over the years and we perhaps speak in a lower context form than in previous generations.
Lower context meaning more straight forward, meaning inherent in the actual words, rather than coded contextual language that had to convey several layers of meaning. Western culture tends towards the lower context
I think people swore plenty in years past though. Maybe not in songs or on stage, but I think there have always been coarse words. Shakespeare has plenty of bawdy language. Swearing can be a joy.
Language is fun and I think all of the words should be used, at least once.
Also, I like some rap music and I think any music/lyrics of quality are amazing to hear. I like how creative rap can be and even when focused on darker themes, its pretty damn expressive and worth examining.
I would like to see better forms of all music though. I think the industry churns out crap cause it can.

[kbadr]

Some people curse on stage because they think it's funny.
I curse on stage because that's what word comes out of my mouth.

If you're being truthful on stage, and you have so-called vulgarity in your vocabulary, they will probably (I'd say, hopefully) come out on stage.

And sometimes, if you want to watch your language for whatever reason (see the Kidprov thread), thinking "don't say fuck, don't say fuck, don't say fuck" can be the best way to guarantee that the word's going to fly out of your mouth.

If you don't want to curse on stage, you should probably work on eliminating certain words from your off-stage vocabulary and trust that it will overflow into your on-stage word-choices. You can't censor yourself on stage.

Besides, you can say much worse things than "fuck" on stage without using a single dirty word.

[ESeufert]

Some people curse on stage because they think it's funny.
I curse on stage because that's what word comes out of my mouth.

If you're being truthful on stage, and you have so-called vulgarity in your vocabulary, they will probably (I'd say, hopefully) come out on stage.

And sometimes, if you want to watch your language for whatever reason (see the Kidprov thread), thinking "don't say fuck, don't say fuck, don't say fuck" can be the best way to guarantee that the word's going to fly out of your mouth.

If you don't want to curse on stage, you should probably work on eliminating certain words from your off-stage vocabulary and trust that it will overflow into your on-stage word-choices. You can't censor yourself on stage.

Besides, you can say much worse things than "fuck" on stage without using a single dirty word.

If you're improvising and the word "fuck" comes out of your mouth as a legitimate extension of that character, then I don't think you've compromised your craft or called your own talent into question. (unless you're performing at a state fair or church picnic or something). If you fall back on saying "fuck" because you're grasping at straws to come up with something funny to say, then you have. But I wouldn't say that crude dialogue is inherently bereft of talent.

[Wesley]

I try to use words true to my character. If my character would not say fuck, I don't say fuck. If they would, I would.

For example, I'm endowed as a Beaver Cleaver type stay-at-home mom. It doesn't matter how many times a day in real life I say fuck, that character would never utter it and if I'm fully in her mindset, it will never come out on stage. However, if I'm an agnsty teenage son of a mentally abusive father, I'll probably quadruple the amount of cursing I do over real life because that's what that character's vocabulary is.

If you live you character and allow the sotry to tell itself through you, instead of over worrying about telling it yourself, it will take you where it needs to go and you will use the words you need to use. Don't think about what is too much or appropriate. Just be that character and they'll have their own voice. One that may surprise even you for its creativity, obscenity, cleanliness, religiosity, limitedness, robustness, or uniqueness.

[Lants]

I agree with almost everything Ratliff said. I still get surprised when rap music is "blamed" for anything... that's just stale ignorance to me (sorry to Martha Bayles... I looked her up... bleh)

Cursing is misused just like anything else. It also works perfectly when used correctly, just like anything else.

[ratliff]

I agree with almost everything Ratliff said.

"Almost"? Bring it on, dickshine.

[Lants]

"Almost"? Bring it on, dickshine.

I actually listen to rap.

[ratliff]

I'm just going to slink off to my solarium and put on Cats now.

[mpbrockman]

There are plenty of lousy black preachers around, but nobody uses them to argue that therefore all sermons in black churches are worthless.

After all, there are so many other good reasons...

Shad Kunkle says that obscenity should only be used when emotion has reached such a pitch that normal language won't suffice, sort of like a song in a musical. By this standard, a curse word would almost never be uttered in a normal conversational tone onstage.

Would this still hold if your character was the type of person who says the f-word in every other sentence? I know a number of these people and yes, it's inarticulate but it's true to form.

Personally, I think dropping an "f-bomb" is funny exactly once a night - after that the shock value is gone. What never ceases to amaze me is how often audiences disagree. It seems that a lot of people believe that someone standing on stage saying "fuckety-fuck-fuck-fuck" is really funny. This is depressing.

Frank Zappa said we went "straight from Walt Whitman to Ice-T". I wouldn't go that far. I can't quite see the seamless transition from "A Noiseless, Patient Spider" to "Cop Killer". But Martha Bayles apparently misses completely the intricate wordplay of a Ludacris or the counter-intuitive polyrhythms of some of Eminem's work.

Not to mention, if your kid can be that easily swayed by anything a rapper has to say - you might need to gut check your parenting skills.