sour, frustrated.

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » September 27th, 2006, 8:17 pm

i only read when i'm sitting down to use the potty. with few exceptions, this is where i get all my "reading" that everyone says is so "important."
i borrowed a copy of Improvise by mick napier and after page 31, i have switched to Flooring 1-2-3 by Home Depot. improv books suck. give me ten years and i'll have an amazing, non-irreverent for irrerevent's sake, inarrogant, non-name-dropping, non-boring book that isn't just a list of FUN games or an incorrect history of improv. give me ten years. and $100,000,000.

i think the only thing chris trew isn't working on might be an improv book. maybe.

anyway,
b

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » September 27th, 2006, 11:04 pm

I'm really starting to think that there are basically one or two improv books, but they've been written about 100 times by different authors (and sometimes the authors write more than one.)

I also think that the first improv book someone reads will open their eyes, and they'll think highly of that particular book, and then all others just seem meh.

valetoile · Post by **valetoile** » September 28th, 2006, 2:03 pm

I like FreePlay by Stephen Nakmanovitch. It's not about improv theatre, it's about the place of improvisation in creativity, whether it's art, music, theatre, life, whatever.

I usually find I learn more by trying to find truths of improv in other areas of writing, like Sartre, or the quotes fromm the Chuck Jones book Roy posted. when you can find and extrapolate that wisdom for yourself, you're being a Critical Reader.

smerlin · Post by **smerlin** » September 28th, 2006, 2:05 pm

I second that, Val.

Free Play is a great book about the essence of improvisation, not it's application.

The author is an improvising violinist.

shando · Post by **shando** » September 28th, 2006, 2:27 pm

Personally, I think there's only so much to be gleaned after a while from books about improv (or acting in general). After a while, like Kareem says, one just goes, "meh."

Rather than reading about how to improvise, it seems like books about other things, like history, science, myth, politics, art, etc are what improvisers should be reading. After a while people know just fine "how" to improvise. Without knowledge of things outside of us, of which books are still the leading source, you start running out of "what" to improvise.

This is of course my own personal MA in English bias. I'd lvoe to hear what you non-readers out there think.

Roy Janik · Post by **Roy Janik** » September 28th, 2006, 3:13 pm

shando wrote:Rather than reading about how to improvise, it seems like books about other things, like history, science, myth, politics, art, etc are what improvisers should be reading. After a while people know just fine "how" to improvise. Without knowledge of things outside of us, of which books are still the leading source, you start running out of "what" to improvise.

That reminds me of a show idea I had a while back. It's a 3 part deal.

First, for about 30 minutes or so, someone who's passionate about a topic, like Japanese theatre, WW II, feral children, etc, leads a lecture/discussion/whatever about it.

Then a group of improvisers, having just seen the lecture, get up and do a series of scenes using/inspired by their new found knowledge.

And finally everyone drinks.

shando · Post by **shando** » September 28th, 2006, 3:17 pm

That sounds like a badass idea, Roy. I love crap like that. You should talk to Buzz and LB about getting you some lecturers. Also, there are pletny of people who know a lot about a lot of things here in our community.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » September 28th, 2006, 3:19 pm

The only thing I'd add to this is that people learn by three distinct paths -- visual, audio and kinetic (i.e. "doing"). Everyone is capable of learning through all three, but one is most often dominant.

I happen to be a visual learner. As such, I found Truth In Comedy, Impro and Improvise helpful in creating all the neat neurological pathways I needed to understand what was going on.

Of course, there's no substitute in improv for stage time and good direction, but a book articulated and reinforced certain ideas that a director alone couldn't.

So stop trashing improv books, you damned artists. Some of us learn different.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » September 28th, 2006, 3:20 pm

I like the idea of bringing in outside lecturers, for many reasons. First, it brings in a true expert (rather than opening up a half hour monologue slot for someone to find something to talk about, which would happen). And second, it will expose our community to whatever community the lecturer is a part of. I like this a lot.

shando · Post by **shando** » September 28th, 2006, 3:26 pm

Jastroch wrote:I happen to be a visual learner. As such, I found Truth In Comedy, Impro and Improvise helpful in creating all the neat neurological pathways I needed to understand what was going on.

I learned a shit load from these books as well. I'm just saying once you've got some of this stuff down through both initial exposure to the work and also performing, new books are less likely to come along that will have the same impact.

I would say that books about other aspects of theater can be helpful for bringing fresh ideas into the 'prov.

Suzuki's book, Anne Bogart and Tina Landau's book on Viewpoints, books on butoh and post-modern dance, Peter Brook's the Empty Space, Eugenio Barba's book Theatre Anthropology have all been big influences for me. I own a number of these if people are interested.

nadine · Post by **nadine** » September 28th, 2006, 3:57 pm

shando wrote:Suzuki's book, Anne Bogart and Tina Landau's book on Viewpoints, books on butoh and post-modern dance

*perks up* dance? what book?

And I'm with Jastro, books have their places. I've read an entire book on how to teach ballet, and a lot of it was over my head, but it was a quiet serene read.

shando · Post by **shando** » September 28th, 2006, 4:05 pm

nadine wrote:
shando wrote:Suzuki's book, Anne Bogart and Tina Landau's book on Viewpoints, books on butoh and post-modern dance
*perks up* dance? what book?

The books I'm thinking of are all by Sally Banes. I posted something about them not long ago. They're all about history, not practice, but you can steal a ton of ides from them. Plus it's nice to read a time when art was both seriously democratic in its impulses and wildly experimental. The books in question are Terpiscore in Sneakers, Democracy's Body, and Greenwich Village 1963: Avant-Garde Performance and the Effervescent Body.

I don't own any of these, but they are worth seeking out at the library/Bookpeople.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » September 28th, 2006, 4:24 pm

shando wrote: I would say that books about other aspects of theater can be helpful for bringing fresh ideas into the 'prov.

Certainly. I was being snarky.

Marc Majcher · Post by **Marc Majcher** » September 28th, 2006, 5:35 pm

Roy Janik wrote: That reminds me of a show idea I had a while back. It's a 3 part deal.

Three parts of awesome.

smerlin · Post by **smerlin** » September 28th, 2006, 7:11 pm

To me, improv books help me clarify, re-affirm, or just put good words to something I have already seen or experienced in improv. When I used to assign chapters of Impro in my classes, I would have them read the chapter we were working on AFTER the workshop on it. Kinda the opposite of most other kinds of classes.

For me, reading about improv is for processing what has already happened. If you read too much about improv before experiencing a lot, I'm afraid it would put you in your head and color your experience too much.