RIP Chris Hitchens

mpbrockman · Post by **mpbrockman** » December 19th, 2011, 1:47 am

I did think about including a not so veiled offer of a quick elbow to the nose to anyone who would suggest that that the world losing one of it's most incisive and interesting thinkers was a good thing.

But then I'd be proving too many people's point.

I shall be having a long walk and a good cry down here. Anyone else who ever felt inspired by this outspoken and crotchety former Englishman and late American emigre - pleases feel free to weigh in here.

Good night, Hitch.

mpbrockman · Post by **mpbrockman** » December 19th, 2011, 1:56 am

One of Christopher's last articles.

And, I think, a required read - especially for those of us who depend so heavily on the spoken (or sung) word.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/featu ... ths-201106

B. Tribe · Post by **B. Tribe** » December 19th, 2011, 7:37 am

I watched some debates in honor of him on Friday. He's not exactly the best debater but he is very quoteable. He's a smart dick and I love him for it.

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell · December 19th, 2011, 8:34 am

couldn't stand the man, but that's a hell of a way for anyone to go...

mpbrockman · Post by **mpbrockman** » December 19th, 2011, 7:26 pm

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote:couldn't stand the man, but that's a hell of a way for anyone to go...

Could've guessed that...

Brad Hawkins · Post by **Brad Hawkins** » December 20th, 2011, 8:25 am

Hitchens actually inspired me to be more tolerant by setting a counterexample. I was once very dismissive of religious people, for many of the same reasons he was, but when I saw his thoughts put in the inimitable way he put them, his sheer volume of bigotry turned my stomach. I still detest those who try to foist their faith upon others, but I now realize that I (as well as Hitchens) fell into that category as well. Just because we were proselytizing a lack of faith doesn't make it any less proselytizing.

Naturally, his outspoken cheerleading for the Iraq war turned me off of him for good, but it was his contempt for even conscientious people of faith that started me questioning. So you could say he was a positive influence in my life.

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell · December 20th, 2011, 9:08 am

mpbrockman wrote:
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote:couldn't stand the man, but that's a hell of a way for anyone to go...
Could've guessed that...

you have to MEET me before you call me an idiot.

Brad Hawkins wrote:Hitchens actually inspired me to be more tolerant by setting a counterexample. I was once very dismissive of religious people, for many of the same reasons he was, but when I saw his thoughts put in the inimitable way he put them, his sheer volume of bigotry turned my stomach. I still detest those who try to foist their faith upon others, but I now realize that I (as well as Hitchens) fell into that category as well. Just because we were proselytizing a lack of faith doesn't make it any less proselytizing.

Naturally, his outspoken cheerleading for the Iraq war turned me off of him for good, but it was his contempt for even conscientious people of faith that started me questioning. So you could say he was a positive influence in my life.

glad he managed to do some good in the world, even if it was just as a cautionary tale. fundamentalists of any stripe are as bad as fundamentalists of every stripe.

on the opposite side, he did nothing to put me off of atheists in general. which is good, because i love way too many of you heathens.

mpbrockman · Post by **mpbrockman** » December 24th, 2011, 11:19 am

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote: ...on the opposite side, he did nothing to put me off of atheists in general. which is good, because i love way too many of you heathens.

Well Jordan, if I may be perhaps awkwardly honest. It's b/c theist or non-theist I think our shared ethos comes from love, respect, and a genuine concern for our fellow humans. We can debate this at another time if you wish - but it is my observation that these qualities are independent of religious conviction.

You Brad, however, have gotten under my skin a bit. If all you can take away from Hitch's work is that he's somehow the antithesis of all you consider worthwhile, then I will suggest that you re-read the link I posted above again - I'm going to assume you gave me the respect to have read it once already.

Certainly anyone who does not suffer fools (theist or non-theist) gladly and has the intellect and rhetorical skills to point out their ignorance, and when necessary, ridicule them remorselessly & effectively is probably never going to be a popular person - but I challenge anyone to read the above article and find instead, not a man expressing (in the face of death) remorse for his intellectual positions, but rather a somewhat perplexed human trying to articulate (no pun intended) the experience of some of his last bits of humanity falling off.

*bit deleted after author, upon rereading it several days later, found it excessively maudlin, self pitying and yet somehow self-aggrandizing - all apologies*

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell · December 24th, 2011, 11:49 am

mpbrockman wrote:
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote: ...on the opposite side, he did nothing to put me off of atheists in general. which is good, because i love way too many of you heathens.
Well Jordan, if I may be perhaps awkwardly honest. It's b/c theist or non-theist I think our shared ethos comes from love, respect, and a genuine concern for our fellow humans. We can debate this at another time if you wish - but it is my observation that these qualities are independent of religious conviction.

absolutely. i've said for some time now it doesn't matter to me so much WHAT you believe as HOW you believe it...which is to say how you put your beliefs into action, how it informs your character and relationships with others. i've met atheists who are more charitable, forgiving and loving than some Christians...and some who are more rabid, zealous and irrational than the worst fundamentalists. and one of my favorite Christian thinkers (a man i regard as a bit of a prophet) is a Buddhist. religion is just what you call yourself...the truth of your character lies in your actions towards your fellow man.

Brad Hawkins · Post by **Brad Hawkins** » January 19th, 2012, 2:12 pm

Necroposting this thread to recant some of the things I said earlier. My impression of Hitchens was that of a man who was intolerant not just of religion but of religious people, and that impression was false. I've spent the last few weeks reading God is Not Great and have been impressed by Hitchens' humanity. Never does he use any disparaging terms for conscientious believers. I apologize to posterity. I was probably confusing him with Dawkins.

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell · January 19th, 2012, 2:14 pm

no, he just saved his disparaging comments towards religious people for his public statements...y'know, when he was drunk.

Brad Hawkins · Post by **Brad Hawkins** » January 19th, 2012, 2:17 pm

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote:no, he just saved his disparaging comments towards religious people for his public statements...y'know, when he was drunk.

I cannot claim to be immune to that impulse, so I won't judge him on that.

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell · January 19th, 2012, 2:42 pm

Brad Hawkins wrote:
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote:no, he just saved his disparaging comments towards religious people for his public statements...y'know, when he was drunk.
I cannot claim to be immune to that impulse, so I won't judge him on that.

only my friends can call me an idiot when they're drunk.

davealley2 · Post by **davealley2** » January 19th, 2012, 3:59 pm

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote:only my friends can call me an idiot when they're drunk.

Halfway there.

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell · January 19th, 2012, 4:03 pm

only my friends who give me $50 can call me an idiot when they're drunk.