I'm going to use Pyro Dan's questions as a way to organize my thoughts.
Do you consider yourself an artist?
I've always enjoyed artistic pursuits, but I somehow got the message that one could most likely not survive on them, so they always took a backseat to a job or more practical things. I also got the message that they were somehow very valuable. So I've been a dabbler my entire life in theater, visual art, music, writing. I've played around with all of them.
Only recently (since I've discovered improv, seriously) have I come to see that these things are what make me happy and fulfilled, and that my job (which I enjoy) facilitates these pursuits. Having come to that realization I am much happier.
About a month ago I was talking to my Dad about some performance thing or another where he had come up as an inspiration or something (probably in a not entirely flattering way) and I said to him, "Having a son who is an artist has its ups and downs." His very kind response was something along the lines of, "It's worth it." (He's always been a frustrated creator himself.)
I don't know if I have ever seriously used the word "artist" to describe myself before that moment. To be honest, it scared me, and it also felt really right.
So yeah, I'm an artist. I may not be a very good one, and I'm certainly not a very focused one, but I'm an artist. To me it's something about who you are internally. I have a drive to create and share that creation with others. In general I don't go around telling people I'm an artist. (I think this post might be the second time after my Dad...) If I was having a deep conversation with someone about who I REALLY am...I think I would have to use the word artist.
Why or why not?
See above.
What are some of your struggles with being an artist?
Top two struggles: fear and work avoidance. They're related.
I think that's one of the reasons I'm doing improv, because it's forcing me to look at the fear directly, without dramatizing it, and deal with it in a practical way.
Avoiding the hard work of art is more complex. Often times laziness is a subtle manifestation of fear I've found.
Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?
I have made a grand total of $400 in my entire life from acting. I did have a day job where I wrote on hold messages and did voice over so some of that counts I think maybe.
I gave up thinking I would "make it" a long time ago. It's possible I guess, but not likely I think, and I don't care anymore. OK, yeah, it would be great, but that's not what my creative pursuits are about, and as others have said, I don't have to take money into consideration when deciding what I do creatively, which is nice.
How do you reconcile being an artist with having a day job?
The day job supports my other pursuits. Some of what I do in my job is artistic as well. See above.
How do you reconcile being an artist with having a relationship/family?
I became a father (oops!) very young, and that has kept me from my artistic pursuits to some degree for a while. My son is grown now, I'm in my 40s so I've mellowed, my career is on a decent track and I enjoy it, so I'm more free to create now than I have been.
I really don't see myself getting serious with someone who doesn't understand the need for creative pursuits and have their own. I've never been interested in people who are very focused around their career.
And that's all I have to say about that...
This is a fascinating topic...
Discussion of the art and craft of improvisation.
Moderators: arclight, happywaffle, bradisntclever
This is a fascinating topic...
"The raft is used to cross the river. It isn't to be carried around on your shoulders. The finger which points at the moon isn't the moon itself."
— Thich Nhat Hanh
— Thich Nhat Hanh
-
- JediImprov Offline
- Posts: 63
- Joined: March 7th, 2011, 10:33 am
Hey Ryan- good to see you so active on the forums and very GLAD for you, that the crutches are gone. Must be nice to walk again!
I really like this post, it powerfully resonates with me because my business life and to a lesser degree, my personal life, are so totally opposite of improv and the idea of being an "artist". And I had the same struggle with the term, "filmmaker", which i got into over five years ago. So what the hell, here is my nickel's worth.
Do you consider yourself an artist? Why or why not?
Yes, I do, but nowhere near an accomplished one. Not even close, but so much further then I was when I first began to explore this world some five years ago. Ive written, produced and directed to short films, both were rather ambitious in scope, one included 43 cast and crew. But I just COULD NOT see myself as a filmmaker, because although the cast and production values were very high, my skills as a storyteller were not good at all. I put out two good products, visually, that were flat in terms of tension and drama. So therefore, I should not call myself a filmmaker or artist until I get good at it, right?
Before improv, I studied film very extensively, both in Los Angeles and here in Austin, lots of classes and workshops. Now, Ive been in improv for just over a year. But still I struggled with, what the hell am I doing? Why do I keep spending all this money? I dont make a living at this, so why am I do keep doing all this? The simple answers was, because I have to, I have no choice. Every ounce of my being craves all of the many benefits of putting myself out there. It was that day that I realized that I am, indeed, an artist. A great post that Brad Hawkins put out, really nailed that down for me even more:
“What nobody tells people who are beginners — and I really wish someone had told this to me . . . is that all of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, and it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not.
But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase. They quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know it’s normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story.
It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”
I am nowhere near where I want to be as artist, I am still very much in the beginners stage with the two art forms that I am so passionate about, but I am slowly learning to getting better at my craft and therefore, at the creations I put out there, as an improviser, as a filmmaker and as a poet. And that's enough for now.
What are some of your struggles with being an artist?
Not having enough time to study and practice my artistic passions, is a big one. Probably my biggest challenge is the fact that my work is VERY intense mentally, very hard at times. Tuning that out, finding and protecting my "creative space" has proven very hard. I have yet to find a way to switch between the two as timely and effectively as I would like.
I used to struggle with output, still do at times, meaning- I want what I create to rock the world. But that is far less an issue these days. As Speilberg has often been quoted as saying, all that he cares about is that he feel he is doing better work today, then he was five years ago. I am settling into that process and viewpoint, myself.
Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?
Although I suspect Im a lifer with regards to improv on some level, making films is my greatest passion, artistically. That said, I have no desire to make it in that world, in the traditional sense. I dont want a studio telling me what to do, kissing that kind of ass. I do hope that one day, my life would be primarily filled with artistic endeavors, whatever that may look like. And I do want to one day get good at being a storyteller, enough to be able to impact people in mass. But its about the process, the experience for me, not the money.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: This is a fascinating topic...
I'm going to use Pyro Dan's questions as a way to organize my thoughts.
Do you consider yourself an artist?
I've always enjoyed artistic pursuits, but I somehow got the message that one could most likely not survive on them, so they always took a backseat to a job or more practical things. I also got the message that they were somehow very valuable. So I've been a dabbler my entire life in theater, visual art, music, writing. I've played around with all of them.
Only recently (since I've discovered improv, seriously) have I come to see that these things are what make me happy and fulfilled, and that my job (which I enjoy) facilitates these pursuits. Having come to that realization I am much happier.
About a month ago I was talking to my Dad about some performance thing or another where he had come up as an inspiration or something (probably in a not entirely flattering way) and I said to him, "Having a son who is an artist has its ups and downs." His very kind response was something along the lines of, "It's worth it." (He's always been a frustrated creator himself.)
I don't know if I have ever seriously used the word "artist" to describe myself before that moment. To be honest, it scared me, and it also felt really right.
So yeah, I'm an artist. I may not be a very good one, and I'm certainly not a very focused one, but I'm an artist. To me it's something about who you are internally. I have a drive to create and share that creation with others. In general I don't go around telling people I'm an artist. (I think this post might be the second time after my Dad...) If I was having a deep conversation with someone about who I REALLY am...I think I would have to use the word artist.
Why or why not?
See above.
What are some of your struggles with being an artist?
Top two struggles: fear and work avoidance. They're related.
I think that's one of the reasons I'm doing improv, because it's forcing me to look at the fear directly, without dramatizing it, and deal with it in a practical way.
Avoiding the hard work of art is more complex. Often times laziness is a subtle manifestation of fear I've found.
Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?
I have made a grand total of $400 in my entire life from acting. I did have a day job where I wrote on hold messages and did voice over so some of that counts I think maybe.
I gave up thinking I would "make it" a long time ago. It's possible I guess, but not likely I think, and I don't care anymore. OK, yeah, it would be great, but that's not what my creative pursuits are about, and as others have said, I don't have to take money into consideration when deciding what I do creatively, which is nice.
How do you reconcile being an artist with having a day job?
See my comments above, its a daily struggle. But I have to force myself to make time to play and create, it feeds me and its food I must have in my life.
How do you reconcile being an artist with having a relationship/family?
I basically sleep around a lot, only participating in meaningless friendships and romantic entanglements. LOL Not!
My artistic life is very much apart of me, to love me is to accept and embrace that, or no thanks. Its that black and white for me. That said, the time demands, especially when I doing a film, can be very insane. So, like anything in life, I try my best to be attentive and appreciative when Im dating someone and my artistic hours are very demanding.
Great post, Ryan!
I really like this post, it powerfully resonates with me because my business life and to a lesser degree, my personal life, are so totally opposite of improv and the idea of being an "artist". And I had the same struggle with the term, "filmmaker", which i got into over five years ago. So what the hell, here is my nickel's worth.
Do you consider yourself an artist? Why or why not?
Yes, I do, but nowhere near an accomplished one. Not even close, but so much further then I was when I first began to explore this world some five years ago. Ive written, produced and directed to short films, both were rather ambitious in scope, one included 43 cast and crew. But I just COULD NOT see myself as a filmmaker, because although the cast and production values were very high, my skills as a storyteller were not good at all. I put out two good products, visually, that were flat in terms of tension and drama. So therefore, I should not call myself a filmmaker or artist until I get good at it, right?
Before improv, I studied film very extensively, both in Los Angeles and here in Austin, lots of classes and workshops. Now, Ive been in improv for just over a year. But still I struggled with, what the hell am I doing? Why do I keep spending all this money? I dont make a living at this, so why am I do keep doing all this? The simple answers was, because I have to, I have no choice. Every ounce of my being craves all of the many benefits of putting myself out there. It was that day that I realized that I am, indeed, an artist. A great post that Brad Hawkins put out, really nailed that down for me even more:
“What nobody tells people who are beginners — and I really wish someone had told this to me . . . is that all of us who do creative work, we get into it because we have good taste. But there is this gap. For the first couple years you make stuff, and it’s just not that good. It’s trying to be good, it has potential, but it’s not.
But your taste, the thing that got you into the game, is still killer. And your taste is why your work disappoints you. A lot of people never get past this phase. They quit. Most people I know who do interesting, creative work went through years of this. We know our work doesn’t have this special thing that we want it to have. We all go through this. And if you are just starting out or you are still in this phase, you gotta know it’s normal and the most important thing you can do is do a lot of work. Put yourself on a deadline so that every week you will finish one story.
It is only by going through a volume of work that you will close that gap, and your work will be as good as your ambitions. And I took longer to figure out how to do this than anyone I’ve ever met. It’s gonna take awhile. It’s normal to take awhile. You’ve just gotta fight your way through.”
I am nowhere near where I want to be as artist, I am still very much in the beginners stage with the two art forms that I am so passionate about, but I am slowly learning to getting better at my craft and therefore, at the creations I put out there, as an improviser, as a filmmaker and as a poet. And that's enough for now.
What are some of your struggles with being an artist?
Not having enough time to study and practice my artistic passions, is a big one. Probably my biggest challenge is the fact that my work is VERY intense mentally, very hard at times. Tuning that out, finding and protecting my "creative space" has proven very hard. I have yet to find a way to switch between the two as timely and effectively as I would like.
I used to struggle with output, still do at times, meaning- I want what I create to rock the world. But that is far less an issue these days. As Speilberg has often been quoted as saying, all that he cares about is that he feel he is doing better work today, then he was five years ago. I am settling into that process and viewpoint, myself.
Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?
Although I suspect Im a lifer with regards to improv on some level, making films is my greatest passion, artistically. That said, I have no desire to make it in that world, in the traditional sense. I dont want a studio telling me what to do, kissing that kind of ass. I do hope that one day, my life would be primarily filled with artistic endeavors, whatever that may look like. And I do want to one day get good at being a storyteller, enough to be able to impact people in mass. But its about the process, the experience for me, not the money.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:58 am Post subject: This is a fascinating topic...
I'm going to use Pyro Dan's questions as a way to organize my thoughts.
Do you consider yourself an artist?
I've always enjoyed artistic pursuits, but I somehow got the message that one could most likely not survive on them, so they always took a backseat to a job or more practical things. I also got the message that they were somehow very valuable. So I've been a dabbler my entire life in theater, visual art, music, writing. I've played around with all of them.
Only recently (since I've discovered improv, seriously) have I come to see that these things are what make me happy and fulfilled, and that my job (which I enjoy) facilitates these pursuits. Having come to that realization I am much happier.
About a month ago I was talking to my Dad about some performance thing or another where he had come up as an inspiration or something (probably in a not entirely flattering way) and I said to him, "Having a son who is an artist has its ups and downs." His very kind response was something along the lines of, "It's worth it." (He's always been a frustrated creator himself.)
I don't know if I have ever seriously used the word "artist" to describe myself before that moment. To be honest, it scared me, and it also felt really right.
So yeah, I'm an artist. I may not be a very good one, and I'm certainly not a very focused one, but I'm an artist. To me it's something about who you are internally. I have a drive to create and share that creation with others. In general I don't go around telling people I'm an artist. (I think this post might be the second time after my Dad...) If I was having a deep conversation with someone about who I REALLY am...I think I would have to use the word artist.
Why or why not?
See above.
What are some of your struggles with being an artist?
Top two struggles: fear and work avoidance. They're related.
I think that's one of the reasons I'm doing improv, because it's forcing me to look at the fear directly, without dramatizing it, and deal with it in a practical way.
Avoiding the hard work of art is more complex. Often times laziness is a subtle manifestation of fear I've found.
Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?
I have made a grand total of $400 in my entire life from acting. I did have a day job where I wrote on hold messages and did voice over so some of that counts I think maybe.
I gave up thinking I would "make it" a long time ago. It's possible I guess, but not likely I think, and I don't care anymore. OK, yeah, it would be great, but that's not what my creative pursuits are about, and as others have said, I don't have to take money into consideration when deciding what I do creatively, which is nice.
How do you reconcile being an artist with having a day job?
See my comments above, its a daily struggle. But I have to force myself to make time to play and create, it feeds me and its food I must have in my life.
How do you reconcile being an artist with having a relationship/family?
I basically sleep around a lot, only participating in meaningless friendships and romantic entanglements. LOL Not!
My artistic life is very much apart of me, to love me is to accept and embrace that, or no thanks. Its that black and white for me. That said, the time demands, especially when I doing a film, can be very insane. So, like anything in life, I try my best to be attentive and appreciative when Im dating someone and my artistic hours are very demanding.
Great post, Ryan!
Hey Bob
Good to see you too! Unfortunately, I accidentally posted this out of the thread it was supposed to be a part of and as its own topic. It's also posted in the thread. I suggest you go to that thread and copy and paste your thoughts there.
Here it is:
http://forum.austinimprov.com/viewtopic.php?t=12309
Here it is:
http://forum.austinimprov.com/viewtopic.php?t=12309
"The raft is used to cross the river. It isn't to be carried around on your shoulders. The finger which points at the moon isn't the moon itself."
— Thich Nhat Hanh
— Thich Nhat Hanh