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The origin of PT Anderson's greatest films

Posted: November 1st, 2010, 3:23 am
by Spots
This is a tangent thread to my post in the UTfilm discussion. I accidentally injected too much theory into a more practical thread so try to respond here.

I've browsed by a few of the"acting vs. improv" debates lately. To me the debate is tiresome. It's a moot point driven by ego. What I find to be a more productive topic is the situation where a writer and/or director surrenders the narrative in part or in whole to his performers. To the very moment of performance. Who would do that? Who would hand over their sense of control like that? That's amazing.

To me it feels like the evolution of storytelling. That's what it is and how people will see it in the future. It's a battle against the flawed R-Complex. The ritualistic part of our brains. (forgive me I was a zombie for halloween)

We're not really talking about adlibbing here. Not as in Robert De Niro subsituting one line for another. I'm talking about straight up improvised guerilla filmmaking / rehearsal. Read this excerpt about PT Anderson and his employment of Mike Leigh's style.

http://www.popmatters.com/film/intervie ... omas.shtml
"I ask [Anderson] about some of his choices for Magnolia, which is dense with symbolism and populated by grief-stricken and shell-shocked characters. He was inspired in part by his close friendship with John C. Reilly, who plays the LA cop Jim Kurring. "That stuff," he remembers, "happened about three or four years ago, during one summer when we were really bored, and he had grown a mustache and it just made me laugh. He would do this character, this guy who was on Cops, and I had a video camera and we'd drive around and improvise, and call up actors who weren't working at the time, so we'd call up Phil Hoffman and say, go to Moore Park and fuck with the trash cans and we'll drive by in ten minutes and catch you doing it. Then we got a cop uniform and improvised all these altercations. And eventually I started writing all that stuff down. A lot of Jim's dialogue is based on that improvisation, like the Mike Leigh style. It really is a pretty fucking cool way to work. We've gotta try that again."
The making of Magnolia included improvised scenes and monologues. Likewise with Boogie Nights, which is one of my all-time favorite films. Hands down. The performances are so fresh and feel so handcrafted... they fit every character like a glove. Every character has a strong sense of motivation and POV. On the other hand, Hard Eight was filmed more traditionally & bores the living daylights out of me. So it seems that adding true improvisation (not adlibbing) into his narratives really freed Anderson. The films gained texture and mystique. Even if his production process resembles all other film productions (theoretically), his preproduction process is more organic and features the varying perspectives and gifts of improv. More specifically group storytelling and the sacrifice of ritualistic control. Discuss.

Posted: November 1st, 2010, 12:18 pm
by Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell
um...yep. he sure does do that. :)

(what are we meant to be discussing about it? ;) )

Posted: November 1st, 2010, 7:09 pm
by Spots
Whatever. Tangent thread. Tangents.


I kinda wanna watch Mike Leigh films and discuss them here.

Posted: November 2nd, 2010, 3:12 am
by Jeff
Spots wrote:Whatever. Tangent thread. Tangents.


I kinda wanna watch Mike Leigh films and discuss them here.
My fav Leigh films:

Naked
Life is Sweet
High Hopes
Bleak Moments

Posted: November 3rd, 2010, 6:41 pm
by BreveBronovan
I had no idea that PT Anderson worked that way on Boogie Nights and Magnolia, but it really makes sense now that I hear it. It's great that he alos has enough cred behind his name now that he can do that, a lot of hollywood producers I've worked with wrote and rewrote stuff to death (yes I mean the producers, not writers, seriously don't ever work with Kevin Bright on anything, he will take total control and kill your funny).

It's been far too long since I've seen a Mike Leigh film, gotta netflix some of those that I haven't seen. I believe a lot of the French New Wavers worked in that improvised style too, which Mike Leigh was most likely influence by (but who wasn't influenced by them in some way?)

Posted: November 3rd, 2010, 7:00 pm
by Jeff
I like Hard Eight way, way better than Boogie Nights. But that's because I really like Hard Eight, and I strongly dislike Boogie Nights. I'd have to see it again to remember all the reasons I dislike BN, but I remember I had a lot of them.

But there are many films that I love that were built from improvisation, including Leigh's Naked, which is among my all time favorite films.

(Added later, in an attempt to stay more on the original topic): I don't believe one style is necessarily better than the other, between scripting everything out and surrendering control of content to the actors on the set. Some films are great because they stick uncompromisingly to a unique vision, while other films are great because of improvised discoveries the cast and crew made before and during filming. Most films are bad for either of those reasons.

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 12:42 am
by Spots
Jeff wrote:I like Hard Eight way, way better than Boogie Nights. But that's because I really like Hard Eight, and I strongly dislike Boogie Nights. I'd have to see it again to remember all the reasons I dislike BN, but I remember I had a lot of them.
I'd be interested when you follow up on this. Boogie Nights is so rich and epic, with so many unique POVs. Whereas Hard Eight is so slow with a reveal waaay too late in the movie I find it fails to captivate the audience.

But I'm totally up for considering your points.

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 2:25 am
by Jeff
Spots wrote:
Jeff wrote:I like Hard Eight way, way better than Boogie Nights. But that's because I really like Hard Eight, and I strongly dislike Boogie Nights. I'd have to see it again to remember all the reasons I dislike BN, but I remember I had a lot of them.
I'd be interested when you follow up on this. Boogie Nights is so rich and epic, with so many unique POVs. Whereas Hard Eight is so slow with a reveal waaay too late in the movie I find it fails to captivate the audience.

But I'm totally up for considering your points.
But I don't want to follow up on this. I just wanted to contribute to the topic of using improv to make movies. But you can't possibly "find that it fails to captivate the audience." I'm part of the audience, and I was very captivated by Hard Eight. I was actually bored with Boogie Nights. But I don't want to talk about it! Stop making me!

There Will Be Blood. That's probably my favorite movie of the 21st century.

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 2:28 am
by Spots
Oh, you'd have to see again as in "Id' have to be forced to see it again."

Haha, I got it.

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 2:31 am
by Jeff
Thank you. ;)

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 11:31 am
by Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell
i love Boogie Nights. and not just for my love of porn, Alfred Molina and songs from the Transformers: The Movie soundtrack...Magnolia is probably still my favorite PTA film, followed by Punch Drunk Love.

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 1:34 pm
by Spots
Boogie Nights, There Will Be Blood, Magnolia, Punch Drunk, Hard Eight



Not that I would fight anyone to the death over this list (see further: I WILL FIGHT ANYONE TO THE DEATH REGARDING THIS LIST)

Posted: November 4th, 2010, 5:48 pm
by Lants
Chere Mill Be Blood
Magnolia
Punch Drunk Love
Boogie Nights
Sydney

Though Boogie and Love switch back and forth.

Posted: November 5th, 2010, 9:01 am
by Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell
Lants wrote:Chere Mill Be Blood
if i could turn back tiiiiiime, i would steal your milkshake!

Posted: November 5th, 2010, 10:08 am
by Lants
Image