Are You an Artist?

[dancrumb]

but why would you know you are something and deny that you are that thing when asked? you don't have to be vocal about being feminist, but if someone asks you, why would you lie or pile on qualifiers? sounds like you should maybe be something else.

I think her point was this: there is a moniker: X which accurately describes a person subscribing to a set of beliefs or who performs a set of activities or some such stuff. Over time, X has had *other* beliefs and behaviours assigned to them that this person does *not* subscribe to. As a result, when asked "Are you an X?", they choose to say "No", in order to avoid the new associations with X. Where 'X' is Artist, Feminist, Socialist, or whatever, her point was that the muddying of X (at times from those who disdain X, at times from those who embrace X, but take it in a new direction) is what leads to the reluctance to use it.

crumb said
"The other point that was made was that some people who worry about whether what they are doing is a legitimate form of art spend a lot of time defending what they are doing. This, unfortunately, can be a distraction. Those who are making the best quality art don't worry about others' opinions of whether they are making art. As a result, they tend to create things that are indisputably art."

what? i spend almost no time proclaiming what i do is art (this post makes it about 2 minutes total in the last year) and it has not affected my art. this is a ridiculous claim.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. It first it read like you're agreeing, but then, obviously, you don't.
To be clear, my point was more that it's better to focus your energies on executing your art, rather than worrying about whether it is a legitimate artform.

[Marc Majcher]

I suggested audience reception as a barometer for discerning "art" in improv (really, for any performance art) because WE DO SAY that "Art is in the eye of the beholder." That assumes there is someone who is beholding it.

So, Henry Darger - not an artist?

Read my sentence: I was speaking of improv.

Okay, I'm asking about art in a broader sense. Darger was clearly not an improviser, but would you consider him an artist, even though he had exactly zero audience of any kind while he was alive?

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the artist party?

[dancrumb]

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the artist party?

No, but I can name names

[SarahMarie]

Wow. I've loved reading every post on this thread. Now with that said...

I feel that I am an artist.
My goal in life is to be the best artist I can be, and I'm still working out what that means to me.

It doesn't matter to me if someone agrees or disagrees, as it has no weight on what I will continue to do, which is to create art.
I believe that creation, ANY creation, taken with mindfulness, can be art. I've made a salad and called it art for the sincere care, joy and creativity I put into the act of making it.

But, as I said, this is how I choose to perceive my life. I love thinking of a mundane act I perform in daily routine as an artistic performance, with only myself as the audience member to delight in it. I also utilize my artistic education and training, skill etc into a paid performances, and call the work of it art.

By doing both as much as possible, and by surrounding myself with people who understand and pursue their own objectives with joy, I feel satisfied about the way I choose to live my life.

[beardedlamb]

what i mean is, you can consider yourself an artist, defend that moniker, and defend the fact that your artform is a legitimate artform to be taken seriously by people who enjoy art, and not have it effect the quality of your work.

[dancrumb]

what i mean is, you can consider yourself an artist, defend that moniker, and defend the fact that your artform is a legitimate artform to be taken seriously by people who enjoy art, and not have it effect the quality of your work.

Totally agree and, if I implied otherwise, that was not my intention. Like many of these discussions, I believe that the reality is that there is a continuum of practitioners out there who applying varying degrees of effort and skill to the execution of their craft and to its defence as an artform, with varying degrees of success.

[KathyRose]

So, Henry Darger - not an artist?

Read my sentence: I was speaking of improv.

Okay, I'm asking about art in a broader sense. Darger was clearly not an improviser, but would you consider him an artist, even though he had exactly zero audience of any kind while he was alive?

In order to say, I would have to see it, at which point, it would have an audience. Me.

[KathyRose]

Wow. I've loved reading every post on this thread. Now with that said...

I feel that I am an artist.
My goal in life is to be the best artist I can be, and I'm still working out what that means to me.

It doesn't matter to me if someone agrees or disagrees, as it has no weight on what I will continue to do, which is to create art.
I believe that creation, ANY creation, taken with mindfulness, can be art. I've made a salad and called it art for the sincere care, joy and creativity I put into the act of making it.

But, as I said, this is how I choose to perceive my life. I love thinking of a mundane act I perform in daily routine as an artistic performance, with only myself as the audience member to delight in it. I also utilize my artistic education and training, skill etc into a paid performances, and call the work of it art.

By doing both as much as possible, and by surrounding myself with people who understand and pursue their own objectives with joy, I feel satisfied about the way I choose to live my life.

I'd say that you've mastered the Art of Living Well. And that you DO have an appreciative "audience," inasmuch as we naturally observe each other. Maybe not during every moment, but enough that you are recognized as being a person whose joy of life is apparent and transcendent. In turn, that creates a positive response in those whose paths you cross. Bravo! for a life well-played!

[SarahMarie]

Wow. I've loved reading every post on this thread. Now with that said...

I feel that I am an artist.
My goal in life is to be the best artist I can be, and I'm still working out what that means to me.

It doesn't matter to me if someone agrees or disagrees, as it has no weight on what I will continue to do, which is to create art.
I believe that creation, ANY creation, taken with mindfulness, can be art. I've made a salad and called it art for the sincere care, joy and creativity I put into the act of making it.

But, as I said, this is how I choose to perceive my life. I love thinking of a mundane act I perform in daily routine as an artistic performance, with only myself as the audience member to delight in it. I also utilize my artistic education and training, skill etc into a paid performances, and call the work of it art.

By doing both as much as possible, and by surrounding myself with people who understand and pursue their own objectives with joy, I feel satisfied about the way I choose to live my life.

I'd say that you've mastered the Art of Living Well. And that you DO have an appreciative "audience," inasmuch as we naturally observe each other. Maybe not during every moment, but enough that you are recognized as being a person whose joy of life is apparent and transcendent. In turn, that creates a positive response in those whose paths you cross. Bravo! for a life well-played!

Oh no KathyRose!!! Now you've gone and jinxed me!!!

But I promise if I make mad angry crap art, I'll try to still do it with joy.

[kaci_beeler]

what i mean is, you can consider yourself an artist, defend that moniker, and defend the fact that your artform is a legitimate artform to be taken seriously by people who enjoy art, and not have it effect the quality of your work.

Agreed.

In fact, if you're going to defend something against its detractors, it's best to really know your stance on the matter. And if you know where you stand with your work, it can really open your mind up to so many factors that can help in bettering it and pushing it.

In coming to the Edinburgh Fringe I've learned that there is not ONE theater in the UK dedicated to improv. Not one. There are stand-up comedy clubs that have improv, there is improv that temporarily performs in spaces, but there is not one improv theater.

This blows my mind, due to the UK's rich theatre tradition.

We've stood in the streets and offered "improvised plays" and "improvised theatre" to passerbys for 19 days now. I was very surprised that, while some people don't know what improv is, many have an idea what improv is (which here seems to be primarily comedy club style short form), and they DON'T LIKE IT.

I've had people growl in my face, "NO, no improv. NEVER!"
We tell them we're different, we tell them to trust us, even offer them free tickets to give improv a second try, "Just because you make it up doesn't mean it's good!" one man spat those words at me as he backed away.

Sometimes we don't even say we do improv, today we said, "1940s romantic comedy". He's right, just because we make it up doesn't mean that it is going to be good. We're going to give you a good time, a great show, bottom line. The fact that it's improvised is just going to be the sweet, sweet icing on the cake.

So improv has a long way to go in the UK, still. There is an improv show that's played the West End that is here for the Fringe - Showstoppers: The Improvised Musical. Roy and I went to see it tonight. Sold-out show in a 300+ seat venue at 10:50pm at night. And thankfully, wonderfully, it really was a fantastic show. Best improvised musical I've ever seen, maybe one of the best musical theatre experiences I've ever had. But some local UK imps (we've made a bunch of new friends!) have said that people still think of it more like a musical than an improv show, so the growth of notoriety is still not quite there.

Ultimately, the work has to be thought of as being separate from stand-up, and actually separated from stand-up comedy clubs, and from college bars. There is a lot of work to be done to make that happen, but I think it MUST happen for the artform to grow here. They need to defend their art for the sake of their art.

I guess my thought is, if everyone is creative enough by just being, and for this reason they are artists, then I'm most interested in those artists who actively and purposefully work on their creations. Not passive acts of creation, but active ones. I'm interested in people making headway, people making choices, people being thoughtful and constructive.
Passive choices are in large part why improv is stunted in so many regions.

[Marc Majcher]

I guess my thought is, if everyone is creative enough by just being, and for this reason they are artists, then I'm most interested in those artists who actively and purposefully work on their creations. Not passive acts of creation, but active ones. I'm interested in people making headway, people making choices, people being thoughtful and constructive.

Fuck yeah.

Also, all of what Sarah Marie said.

(This is the advantage of knowing smart people. "That!")

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

I guess my thought is, if everyone is creative enough by just being, and for this reason they are artists, then I'm most interested in those artists who actively and purposefully work on their creations. Not passive acts of creation, but active ones. I'm interested in people making headway, people making choices, people being thoughtful and constructive.

Fuck yeah.

Also, all of what Sarah Marie said.

(This is the advantage of knowing smart people. "That!")

what Marc said about what Kaci and Sarah Marie said.

[mpbrockman]

Aw, f*ck it. I just realized in all my contracts with my agencies I am referred to as "Artist".

So whether I consider myself one has become legally irrelevant.

[jillybee72]

The first time I was called an artist was by Ken Nordine, the word jazz legend. We were doing a special show. Ken Nordine and his musicians would do a piece, and then Ken Nordine, in his incredibly resonant voice, would say, "And now the improv artists," and we would do improv inspired by his poem.

For me, it was a significant moment. I felt an incredible sense of permission. I was an artist. I could create art. I could create something richer than light entertainment. I felt self-esteem rise in me, courage, creative freedom. I was not a parlor trick.

Which is to say, being defined as an artist has made me better.