Yes please.mcnichol wrote:Sometimes I wish we were all in a big room at the back of a bar chatting about this kinda stuff (anything in this forum really) over beers and brats so this dialog could overlap and build and then we'd later all walk out a bit sweaty and say "Good god, it's one thirty --I have to work tomorrow! Anyone want the rest of these fries? Who's heading north?"
The Harold
Discussion of the art and craft of improvisation.
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- kbadr Offline
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You work your life away and what do they give?
You're only killing yourself to live
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- Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell Offline
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yeah, clearly i lean more towards the mystical side of things. i talk about group mind and it leads me to talk about the collective unconsciousness, chi, the Tao, the interconnectedness of all things and God...but then, most things do. :p
in the Jury we used to talk about "ensemble" as a glowing blue orb we collectively generated, unlocked and entered/had enter us. i know plenty of the others probably regarded it as a nifty metaphor or warm up game. but damn it, i could SEE that blue orb. i could FEEL it. it was an experience for me. one i try to bring into every group performance i've done since.
that's how group mind/ensemble has always seemed to me, even in theatre. the cast still has to generate that energy and create that journey together. the script just gives us a road map. along the same lines as what Ratliff was saying, there is always that underlying spiritual experience to any art i do...scripted theatre, improv, sketch, music, whatever.
(also, on the sushi front, i like tuna...:p)
in the Jury we used to talk about "ensemble" as a glowing blue orb we collectively generated, unlocked and entered/had enter us. i know plenty of the others probably regarded it as a nifty metaphor or warm up game. but damn it, i could SEE that blue orb. i could FEEL it. it was an experience for me. one i try to bring into every group performance i've done since.
that's how group mind/ensemble has always seemed to me, even in theatre. the cast still has to generate that energy and create that journey together. the script just gives us a road map. along the same lines as what Ratliff was saying, there is always that underlying spiritual experience to any art i do...scripted theatre, improv, sketch, music, whatever.
(also, on the sushi front, i like tuna...:p)
that too.kbadr wrote:Yes please.mcnichol wrote:Sometimes I wish we were all in a big room at the back of a bar chatting about this kinda stuff (anything in this forum really) over beers and brats so this dialog could overlap and build and then we'd later all walk out a bit sweaty and say "Good god, it's one thirty --I have to work tomorrow! Anyone want the rest of these fries? Who's heading north?"
Sweetness Prevails.
-the Reverend
-the Reverend
I've been thinking about this stuff a lot recently. The more I teach organic openings and group games -- or improv for that matter -- the more inclined I am to teach these things experientialy (versus mechanically). In other words, before I dissect the process, I get the students to experience the product.
A lot of the times, improvisers put the cart before the horse. They do something incredible and, pressed for some word to describe it, they call it something--let's say GROUP MIND. Giving it a name then begs the question, "HOW do you DO THAT?" Which leads to more words that inadequately describe our process.
Yes, there's identifiable components to creating group mind -- trust, openness, strong decisions, support -- just as there are identifying markers of good improv.
We should never confuse the process or components of the thing with the thing itself. GROUP MIND is not the same thing as unconditional support and trust, just as a house isn't just a bunch of bricks.
The so-called mystic experience is tied to a different part of our brain, a part that does not experience the world rationally. This is our subconscious, the source of creative inspiration, intuition and insight.
We are taught to use and rely on our rational brain so we can function in adult society, but the truth is this other part of our brain is, in a lot of ways, much smarter.
We are taught improv the wrong way. If it were about memorizing and talking about concepts, we'd all have mastered the craft by now.
A lot of the times, improvisers put the cart before the horse. They do something incredible and, pressed for some word to describe it, they call it something--let's say GROUP MIND. Giving it a name then begs the question, "HOW do you DO THAT?" Which leads to more words that inadequately describe our process.
Yes, there's identifiable components to creating group mind -- trust, openness, strong decisions, support -- just as there are identifying markers of good improv.
We should never confuse the process or components of the thing with the thing itself. GROUP MIND is not the same thing as unconditional support and trust, just as a house isn't just a bunch of bricks.
The so-called mystic experience is tied to a different part of our brain, a part that does not experience the world rationally. This is our subconscious, the source of creative inspiration, intuition and insight.
We are taught to use and rely on our rational brain so we can function in adult society, but the truth is this other part of our brain is, in a lot of ways, much smarter.
We are taught improv the wrong way. If it were about memorizing and talking about concepts, we'd all have mastered the craft by now.
--Jastroch
"Racewater dishtrack. Finese red dirt warfs. Media my volumn swiftly" - Arrogant.
"Racewater dishtrack. Finese red dirt warfs. Media my volumn swiftly" - Arrogant.
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- kbadr Offline
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Yep. I think the trust and support allows us to silence the rational part of our brains, stop it from freaking out that it's not in control, and allow that subconscious to take over or, more accurately, just bask in the unfiltered experience.Jastroch wrote:We should never confuse the process or components of the thing with the thing itself. GROUP MIND is not the same thing as unconditional support and trust, just as a house isn't just a bunch of bricks.
Side note: I am intrigued by how often I describe myself as a separate entity from "my brain" or "the rational part of my brain". Really odd when you think about it.
You work your life away and what do they give?
You're only killing yourself to live
Yeah, basically, what Mr. Ratliff and Mr. McNichol said.
I stopped short this morning of delving into the mystical side of group mind because A) I could feel every second falling like Tetris pieces, which, when I get that way, doesn't end up with me articulating anything well and B) it's hard, I think, to describe group mind when there seem to be different levels of experiences with it.
I do think it's important to kind of demystify it in some ways to prevent people from treating it like it's totally elusive (and thus hampering their commitment to the idea), but I've totally had group mind experiences that definitely felt mystical.
I was jokingly going to refer to the group mind as a cousin of the Force or something because of its paradoxical nature: its influence can feel like an entity separate outside of the group yet is intrinsically part of the group and its expressions.
I stopped short this morning of delving into the mystical side of group mind because A) I could feel every second falling like Tetris pieces, which, when I get that way, doesn't end up with me articulating anything well and B) it's hard, I think, to describe group mind when there seem to be different levels of experiences with it.
I do think it's important to kind of demystify it in some ways to prevent people from treating it like it's totally elusive (and thus hampering their commitment to the idea), but I've totally had group mind experiences that definitely felt mystical.
I was jokingly going to refer to the group mind as a cousin of the Force or something because of its paradoxical nature: its influence can feel like an entity separate outside of the group yet is intrinsically part of the group and its expressions.
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- Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell Offline
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good thing you didn't, then. that would've just been geeky.jose wrote: I was jokingly going to refer to the group mind as a cousin of the Force or something because of its paradoxical nature: its influence can feel like an entity separate outside of the group yet is intrinsically part of the group and its expressions.
Sweetness Prevails.
-the Reverend
-the Reverend
I've been following this thread closely and very much appreciate everyone who has shared.
I came across this article about group dynamics in solving problems and while the headline emphasizes the role of gender, it also discusses how groups are 'smarter' than the individuals in them.
Thought it was somewhat relevant to the discussion of group-mind that this thread has ventured into.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 143339.htm
I came across this article about group dynamics in solving problems and while the headline emphasizes the role of gender, it also discusses how groups are 'smarter' than the individuals in them.
Thought it was somewhat relevant to the discussion of group-mind that this thread has ventured into.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 143339.htm
Not directly related to the discussion, but the idea that we can make interesting connections none of us as individuals might see in an improv show jumps out at me.Moreover, the researchers found that the performance of groups was not primarily due to the individual abilities of the group's members. For instance, the average and maximum intelligence of individual group members did not significantly predict the performance of their groups overall.
Last edited by Pdyx on October 8th, 2010, 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- arthursimone Offline
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I'm gonna diminish the blue-light mystical side of things and remind everyone that we're social creatures in a stark and ugly and primitive sense. It's how we evolved. We're still evolving, anyone who says different is probably breeding anyway.
There's a whole set of unconscious roles and conscious rules we diddle with over and over again. It's pathetic in a way, wonderful in another. Group mind reveals itself in the pursuit of security or pleasure whenever more than 2 people encounter one another, which starts with the family and community of families you're stuck with from day one (unless you're a lucky ducky raised by wolves.)
On the playground some kids are popular some are ostracized, ain't nothing mystical about what makes a jock a jock or a nerd a nerd. Even on the grown-up playground, functional, adult Philadelphia fans give Donovan McNabb a standing ovation on his return to their stadium, then promptly boo him in a way appropriate for the opposing quarterback. Sometimes an audience member talks out of turn and it's amusing and playful, sometimes it's dreadful and awkward.
Who came up with these fucking rules???
Aren't they dumb? Aren't they dangerous? Aren't they exquisite?
Group mind reveals itself as something neither good nor bad, it just is.
I personally think connecting with your lizard-brain/monkey-belly instincts is a as 'mystical' an experience as anything and very attainable. It's raw and fundamental and real, all without me having to chase the glowing blue light of abstract enlightenment.
Perhaps the turn-off people have with the Harold is a similar frustration with this chase. The context of its history and the great-ones-who've-done-it is a buncha noise and distraction. It's driven me crazy doing Harold with 'individuals' who want to start trying something different for the sake of being different. It drives me equally crazy doing Harold with people who don't want to deviate from the 'holy' formula.
Harold is a game we can play together if you wanna, ain't gonna make ya but it's fuuuuuuun if ya do!!
There's a whole set of unconscious roles and conscious rules we diddle with over and over again. It's pathetic in a way, wonderful in another. Group mind reveals itself in the pursuit of security or pleasure whenever more than 2 people encounter one another, which starts with the family and community of families you're stuck with from day one (unless you're a lucky ducky raised by wolves.)
On the playground some kids are popular some are ostracized, ain't nothing mystical about what makes a jock a jock or a nerd a nerd. Even on the grown-up playground, functional, adult Philadelphia fans give Donovan McNabb a standing ovation on his return to their stadium, then promptly boo him in a way appropriate for the opposing quarterback. Sometimes an audience member talks out of turn and it's amusing and playful, sometimes it's dreadful and awkward.
Who came up with these fucking rules???
Aren't they dumb? Aren't they dangerous? Aren't they exquisite?
Group mind reveals itself as something neither good nor bad, it just is.
I personally think connecting with your lizard-brain/monkey-belly instincts is a as 'mystical' an experience as anything and very attainable. It's raw and fundamental and real, all without me having to chase the glowing blue light of abstract enlightenment.
Perhaps the turn-off people have with the Harold is a similar frustration with this chase. The context of its history and the great-ones-who've-done-it is a buncha noise and distraction. It's driven me crazy doing Harold with 'individuals' who want to start trying something different for the sake of being different. It drives me equally crazy doing Harold with people who don't want to deviate from the 'holy' formula.
Harold is a game we can play together if you wanna, ain't gonna make ya but it's fuuuuuuun if ya do!!
"I don't use the accident. I deny the accident." - Jackson Pollock
The goddamn best Austin improv classes!
The goddamn best Austin improv classes!
