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Pretty intersting discussion going on here.

Discussion of the art and craft of improvisation.

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Post by shando »

Well done, Mo, you have officially entered the boys club--someone is huffing off to sulk in response to quoting you.

But John, don't go away mad. Seriously. You asked a serious question earlier that, as I said, I was going to respond to, and I am. And I do think people, even at this point, have stuff to learn.

So here goes.
ratliff wrote:"Inspiration trumps obligation." Meaning that if it becomes obvious to the group exactly what should happen next, for god's sake don't get hung up on the fact that it doesn't fit into the prearranged structure.

Shannon (or anyone, but I know you'll see this), what's the equivalent in narrative? Can you think of examples of when you were inspired to do something you weren't "supposed" to do? Did it work?
Although I've called narrative my "format," that's not quite accurate. I think of narrative as an approach not a prearranged structure. In Get Up's shows, we have one prearranged 'bit' in that, given time strictures, we usually only start two or three story stands at the top of the show. Some narrative people even dispense with that and just go. But after that, there is no structure. We're just following our own curiosity of what might come next, a curiosity we hope the audience is sharing. I think because as humans we all carry around story structures in our head, if a story's working it might look from the outside that we're hitting specific structual 'beats' intentionally in a show, but we're not. In that way, I find narrative to be it's own little inspiration engine, because that's all we're chasing, that feeling of what should happen next. What feels right for that moment without concern for structure.

A while back Jeremy had a pretty good blog post on this which you can read here, and he captures something I think as well about why certain structures aren't for us and some are.

But I still haven't quite answered your question. What happens when I might feel the urge to break a rule of narrative. Hmm. I don't know if it's ever quite happened. I think this is because narrative is a little like capitalism--it can absorb a whole lot that might seem antithetic to it initially and at the end of the day, what do you got? Capitalism.

What do I mean by that? Well, even going meta on a story still reads as story as you pointed out earlier. Shana and I not too long ago had a show where there was a story inside the frame of a Princess Bride like situation of a father reading his daughter the little fairy tale-like bit we had done up front. At the end, we had an ending that didn't satisfy, so we had the daughter ask the dad to retell it the "right" way. And from within that, the characters in the fairy tale yelled back at the father narrator. But even that, formally, still read as story.

That's about as close as I can come. I think the only thing to "break the rules of narrative" would be to end up doing something that in no way could be read as story, which would be what? I don't know. Deciding not to talk and just prance about on stage for the remaining 10 minutes? Or to go out into the audience and start asking them questions about their personal life or something like that? I say that seriously, because I don't know what else, once the narrative train is on the tracks, the audience wouldn't read as story anyway. They might think it's a bad story, but a story nonetheless. And I've never been pulled in that direction yet, because to be pulled there would have meant that the initial narrative was so boring to me that I lost being interested in what came next.

OK, stick around, all right? No one's trying to give you indigestion.
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madeline wrote:i average 40, and like, a billion grains?
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Post by ratliff »

I am neither mad nor "huffing off in a sulk." I am, however, going away.
"I'm not a real aspirational cat."
-- TJ Jagodowski

Post by shando »

ratliff wrote:I am neither mad nor "huffing off in a sulk." I am, however, going away.
Well thanks for taking the time to read my honest response to your honest question. Jesus Key-rist.
http://getup.austinimprov.com
madeline wrote:i average 40, and like, a billion grains?
"She fascinated me 'cause I like to run my fingers through her money."--Abner Jay
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Post by ratliff »

I read it. Thank you.
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Post by kbadr »

"Narrative" I think is without a format, but it's not much of an over-simplification to say any given narrative will adhere to a format, or genre.

Also, I love Ratliff and I love Shannon and it makes me cry when they fight. Not really, but it's still interesting to observe. I also love Mo even though she's not as argumentative as people with penises attached to their bodies.

You work your life away and what do they give?
You're only killing yourself to live

Post by shando »

Hey dude, I ain't fightin' with Ratliff and I ain't saying anything bad about what he loves. And I'm trying to answer his questions and make him clarify his language when I don't understand what he's saying or asking, but I have no beef and wish he weren't going away because I don't quite understand it.
http://getup.austinimprov.com
madeline wrote:i average 40, and like, a billion grains?
"She fascinated me 'cause I like to run my fingers through her money."--Abner Jay

Post by shando »

kbadr wrote:"Narrative" I think is without a format, but it's not much of an over-simplification to say any given narrative will adhere to a format, or genre.
I would say sort of. But even then, it's hard to predict what's going to happen next. Should the next scene be with these two characters, or these two? In defiance of the genre, is the bad guy going to get away? Is it some weird splice of genres? Are your partners even playing the same genre style (this is easier to manage in controlled narrative set ups like Start Trekkin), etc etc.
http://getup.austinimprov.com
madeline wrote:i average 40, and like, a billion grains?
"She fascinated me 'cause I like to run my fingers through her money."--Abner Jay
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Post by Mo Daviau »

I thought I was being supportive. I totally respect reverence to Del, to the Harold, to the awesomeness of improv, and all you dudes who get your fight on on the regular. Kisses!
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Post by kbadr »

All true.

The narrative shows I *love* are the ones that I feel I have absolutely no part in creating. From the first scene I'm just pulled along and there's never any question about what should happen next. I'm not even thinking about it. It's absolutely beautiful.

You work your life away and what do they give?
You're only killing yourself to live

Post by shando »

kbadr wrote:All true.

The narrative shows I *love* are the ones that I feel I have absolutely no part in creating. From the first scene I'm just pulled along and there's never any question about what should happen next. I'm not even thinking about it. It's absolutely beautiful.
Bing bing bing.
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madeline wrote:i average 40, and like, a billion grains?
"She fascinated me 'cause I like to run my fingers through her money."--Abner Jay

Post by shando »

Mo Daviau wrote:I thought I was being supportive. I totally respect reverence to Del, to the Harold, to the awesomeness of improv, and all you dudes who get your fight on on the regular. Kisses!
Mo is Stomache Ache! Or Norman Mailer!
http://getup.austinimprov.com
madeline wrote:i average 40, and like, a billion grains?
"She fascinated me 'cause I like to run my fingers through her money."--Abner Jay
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Post by York99 »

Even a "strict" Harold is not specific:

Opening: many different kinds
Group games: can be short-form games or group scenes
Last beats: 'usually' one or two scenes... and can end in a group scene or a song

In "Art by Committee", Charna talks a bit how the Harold has evolved and even she doesn't seem to have a full grasp of how varied it can be now.

[sorry, haven't been in on this convo in a couple of days]
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Post by ratliff »

Mo Daviau wrote:I thought I was being supportive. I totally respect reverence to Del, to the Harold, to the awesomeness of improv, and all you dudes who get your fight on on the regular. Kisses!
I thought you were being supportive too. All I said in response to it is that I give up on defining and defending it in the abstract because I don't know what it is either, and I don't see the point of a theoretical discussion between someone who loves it and doesn't understand it and someone who doesn't love it and doesn't understand it. I love it; other people don't. As the I Ching says, no blame.

Or, if that explanation seems too self-serving, I was "huffing off to sulk."
"I'm not a real aspirational cat."
-- TJ Jagodowski
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