Dramatic Improv

shando · Post by **shando** » February 15th, 2007, 4:50 pm

Jastroch wrote: especially in the way it's used around these parts...

See, that's what I'm talking about. Why get upset that some people might not carry the exact same connotations of montage as you do, especially when your definintion seems to be the idiosyncratic one. Or that they might have different preferences? It's be one thing if you were Mr. Magnanimous, but I've seen you crinkle your nose up when narrative is mentioned in the same way you think non-linearity is bad-mouthed here in Austin, so why fault others for your own sins? Glass houses and cast not the first stone and all that. And now to answer my own post, I'm going to bash my own hypocritical face with a rock.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » February 15th, 2007, 5:00 pm

I dunno if he crinkles his nose. He blows smoke up Pgraph's arse every chance he gets, and we do our fair share of narrative.

shando · Post by **shando** » February 15th, 2007, 5:06 pm

kbadr wrote:I dunno if he crinkles his nose. He blows smoke up Pgraph's arse every chance he gets, and we do our fair share of narrative.

Again, that's what I'm saying. I have been witness to Jastroch not liking the narrative and then also liking it, because in truth he likes to laugh and see good shit--where this thread started actually. And I say this in the same way that Jastroch shouldn't get bent out of shape when he senses someone 'dissing' 'Chicago-style' because they aren't, and even if they are unintentionally, they're not doctrinaire. I don't think anyone on the scene is doctrinaire. Except for maybe now Arthur on the question of improv 'tragedy.'

York99 · Post by **York99** » February 15th, 2007, 5:39 pm

I don't want to speak for other people, but I think Jastroch was frustrated at his own use of the term Chicago-style as a shorthand for non-narrative improv.

And when Jastroch crinkles his nose, it's not at narrative improv, it's at the attitude that narrative is better and/or when someone snubs non-narrative for one reason or another.

And I'm sure Kareem was joking, but I think that Jastroch really is one of their bigger fans.

As to another issue raised, narrative improv IS done other places. I saw lots of it at iO West. I loved it when it was done well.

Fun fact: ColdTowne started off as a narrative improv troupe.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » February 15th, 2007, 5:45 pm

To clarify: As a performer, I don't really care for narrative for my own reasons. Call it my thing, or whatever.

However, Get Up, PGraph and GGG constantly make me cry tears of joy 'n' shit everytime they get up on stage, because they consistently surprise me and show me that a story can be completely inspiring and surprising and unpredictable and, most of all, nerdy (in a good way).

I don't think I've ever crinkled anything in response to narrative, other than when the debate of "non-linear" vs "linear plot" comes up. I hope, when discussing the relative merits of the two, I don't come across as slagging or looking down on narrative, cause I don't.

Here's a shitty metaphor that you shouldn't read too much into:
I love rock 'n' roll and I love jazz. I'd rather play in a rock 'n' roll band. If you are looking too deeply at the metaphor, please reverse the musical styles.*

*Also, I'd rather play air guitar in my room and fanasize about being in a band than put in the work it takes to learn an instrument.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » February 15th, 2007, 5:53 pm

Let's derail the thread again....

I've always seen "Chicago Style" as a style of longform that reminds me of a lot of indie films, whereas "narrative longform" reminds me of traditional, classic Hollywood films (at their best.)

An over-simplified clarification of my generalization is that I see a lot of heavy character work in what (relatively) little of the better "chicago" style troupes I've seen. The relationships are strong and the character are distinct but not a lot "happens" as far as a narrative is concerned. Not slagging it off, I'm just saying 2 or 3 people will be in a room and have an amazing interaction, instead of getting the golden ring to free the princess to slay the dragon to save the kingdom.

The narrative stuff I've seen, and taken part in, has more of a story arc rather than character arc, perhaps. I'm really just speaking out of my ass at this point.

Whatever my opinion (take note of that -- opinion) expressed above, I've also always said that if I could master both styles and have that in-depth character and relationship work in a narrative longform show, I would rule my world.

Whatever. Call all these different things what you want. We all know they're different and that's why we love them. In conclusion, boys can play sports. So can girls. I once saw a boy put a cucumber in a dress and go on an adventure to defeat hitler with it while his sister sat in the room and carved a primitive weapon out of the cucumber while discussing, at length, the relationship she had with her father. Also, Cornelius is really old, Justin is always wrong, drama is for fags, and comedy is for assholes.

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » February 15th, 2007, 5:55 pm

I thought Jastroch crinkled his nose because he had a secret crush on Dobie Gillis? (hi five for whoever gets this reference)

Also, the only truly Chicago-style thing we will discuss henceforth:

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » February 15th, 2007, 5:58 pm

mcnichol wrote:Also, the only truly Chicago-style thing we will discuss henceforth:

I think we an all agree that whatever that is is just wrong.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » February 15th, 2007, 6:08 pm

This dude could use a hot dog right about now.*

*That was a perfect set up for a burn. Have at it.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » February 15th, 2007, 6:12 pm

Jastroch wrote:This dude could use a hot dog right about now.*

*That was a perfect set up for a burn. Have at it.

You know what I want, Jastroch? You might know these from you life in the North East. I want a Sabrett's Hotdog. GodDAMn those were good. I want one out of a hotdog truck on the side of road.

shando · Post by **shando** » February 15th, 2007, 6:18 pm

kbadr wrote:Justin is always wrong.

Clarification. Justin might be right. It's just hard to tell.

shando · Post by **shando** » February 15th, 2007, 6:22 pm

Jastroch wrote: I don't think I've ever crinkled anything in response to narrative, other than when the debate of "non-linear" vs "linear plot" comes up. I hope, when discussing the relative merits of the two, I don't come across as slagging or looking down on narrative, cause I don't.

I think this goes for people on the 'other side' of this issue and why we shouldn't be too sensitive to someone in an offhand and not unflattering way using the phrase 'hot dog with a pickle' in a postscript to a message. I think we're all in violent agreement that it's time for a weiner.

arthursimone · Post by **arthursimone** » February 15th, 2007, 6:34 pm

where the fuck has this thread gone??

yes, yes, narrative longform can make for certain tragic elements, but I maintain that it will only ever be tragicomedy. It can be honest, visceral, very theatrical and entertaining, but there will always be a certain degree of self-aware absurdity present, right?

What I'm still asking is whether you can get dramatic improv right without at least a nudge or wink or a streak of the bittersweet. And for my constrained definition of 'drama' requiring ceremonial sobriety, I don't think you can.

ChrisTrew.Com · Post by **ChrisTrew.Com** » February 16th, 2007, 12:55 am

For the record, I didn't fart during the show. But I was offered $50 to push one out really hard.

It would have been pretty funny.

York99 · Post by **York99** » February 16th, 2007, 12:56 am

mcnichol wrote:I thought Jastroch crinkled his nose because he had a secret crush on Dobie Gillis? (hi five for whoever gets this reference)

Dobie Gillis was not Gilligan's Island. I would see that familiar face in the opening credits and get excited... only to find that some other show was on. I never watched it because i was mad at it.