B. Iden Payne awards are here again

[acrouch]

The Awards Ceremony isn't until October 21. We're not exactly on the ball with this, but we haven't dropped it yet.

[kbadr]

Email to ACoT has been sent. I just asked about getting improv listed as a category on the official ballot next year, since it's a unique type of performance that deserves to be listed along side scripted formats/styles.

[ratliff]

I think I brought this up last year, but I can't be fucked to find the thread, so here goes again:

I understand the desire to be accorded the same status as other dramatic productions in the voting. But improv presents a unique logistical problem, in that that no two shows are the same. If two ACoT members go see a play on different nights, they're seeing essentially the same production. But if they go see ColdTowne on different nights, they're seeing two completely different shows.

I've misplaced my ACoT ballot, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't any categories for generic Best Actress or Best Director. Like the Oscars, the nominations are for specific contributions to specific shows, ensuring that the voters are all going from the same point of reference. YOU CAN'T DO THIS WITH IMPROV.

In order to make a judgment about the relative merits of various improv troupes, you'd have to go see each group repeatedly to get a sense of their average performance, and you'd have to see as many groups as possible. That's becoming difficult even for those of us soaking in it.

Maybe ACoT is being dismissive, but it seems just as likely that they've acknowledged that this is a legitimate awards category AND that it has to be handled differently than their other categories. If we stamp our feet and demand that voters come see scores of improv shows before voting, it wouldn't surprise me if they decided it wasn't worth the trouble and dropped the category. Or, just as likely, put groups on the ballot that nobody would vote for because they hadn't seen any of them.

They're putting the award in the hands of the people most qualified to award it, in much the same way that technical Oscars are voted on by members of that profession. If we want to take it as a slight, we can, but I would prefer to gracefully accept the opportunity to raise awareness of improv in Austin among our theater colleagues. For the time being, we're the best judges of who deserves notice.

I strongly feel that the award should be for artistic excellence, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER B. IDEN PAYNE AWARD. Community-building is something that's important to us internally, but if we're serious about putting improv on the performing arts map, I think our best shot is to spotlight the group that exemplifies the best we have to offer.

Also, don't forget that we have an advantage that most nominated productions don't have, which is that people can come see the winning improv troupe; they usually don't have that option with a winning play or performance, which have often closed by the time they've won. Let's make the most of it.

[kbadr]

I've misplaced my ACoT ballot, but I'm pretty sure that there aren't any categories for generic Best Actress or Best Director.

I got mine yesterday. There are best actor (lead and featured) in both dramatic and comedic works. There are awards for best musical production, etc. Here's the ballot. I really don't see that having improv on there would seem out of place. Maybe I'm alone in thinking this.

Hell, they have a section for "Comedies." I would think we should have a category there. It's a pretty big contribution to comedic theater in this town. And yes, yes, I know all improv doesn't have to be comedy, so let's not have that discussion again.

Or maybe it would go under the "Special" category. There's one award for "Outstanding Ensemble Performance." Why not improv troupe?

Or, just as likely, put groups on the ballot that nobody would vote for because they hadn't seen any of them.

This is the only reason I want troupes on the ballot. To make the voters (members of the artistic community) sit up and say "Improv huh? I should check it out."

I don't think it's an unreasonable request, particularly since people can indeed go see the "winning" troupe perform. The worst ACoT can do is tell me to fuck off, and I'm ok with that.

And I am going to reiterate that I really don't give a rat's ass who is nominated or who wins. I just want improv on there. And if the excuse for not including it is "well, the people who make the nominations don't see enough improv to nominate." Well then...why the hell not? ACoT exists to promote *theater* in Austin. It's not ACoST.

[Roy Janik]

I strongly feel that the award should be for artistic excellence, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER B. IDEN PAYNE AWARD. Community-building is something that's important to us internally, but if we're serious about putting improv on the performing arts map, I think our best shot is to spotlight the group that exemplifies the best we have to offer.

I definitely agree with this.

[ratliff]

Kareem, you're missing my point. The nominations are, as you say, for Best Whatever in a specific production. You can't do that with improv, because you either have to treat each troupe as a "production," or you have to treat each show as its own production. Neither works for this purpose.

That said, I can see how having several improv groups listed on the ballot would raise awareness and perhaps get some ACoT members out to see improv who might not otherwise.

Mostly, I was hoping that we could give the ACoT the benefit of the doubt and approach them as worthy colleagues rather than lazy chauvinists.

[Wesley]

If the voting is handled differently, that's fine, but the lack of a mention that the award even exists is what is bothering me at the moment.

Perhaps the bottom of the ballot might say: Special Awards will also be awarded in the following categories and fields: blah, blah, improv, blah blah. Perhaps several troupes are listed and perhaps they aren't.

Receiving an award to help gain parity and recognition is one thing, and a huge step forward, but if that award is never mentioned on the site or in related publicity, then we're still flying under the radar for A LOT of artistic and other folks in town. We should be pushing for more public recognition beyond the ceremony itself, however the technical voting aspect of the award is handled.

[kbadr]

Fair enough.

I've already lost interest in this, so it's the last time I'll think about it.

[kaci_beeler]

A couple of things.
1.
Often a scripted, live performance can be just as hit or miss as improv. A cold/small audience or an off night can dramatically affect a scripted show.
I can't tell you how many times I've had this discussion about how a live scripted show is "different every night" and "never the same twice" with theatre students. Bleghhh I hate those discussions. They always conclude with the majority thinking, "Theatre is better than film." When they are totally different beasts.
Anyway.

2.
And I don't know about spotlighting a group, it seems to be a weird problem. Either the majority or who can get into the majority is personally choosing favorites, without the presence of authority.
There are a lot of different styles going on here in the AIC. What I think is the best is probably not what others think is the best.
It becomes undemocratic and it makes me seriously uncomfortable.

[kbadr]

2.
And I don't know about spotlighting a group, it seems to be a weird problem. Either the majority or who can get into the majority is personally choosing favorites, without the presence of authority.
There are a lot of different styles going on here in the AIC. What I think is the best is probably not what others think is the best.
It becomes undemocratic and it makes me seriously uncomfortable.

That's just the nature of any kind of award where there are nominees and, more importantly, people who don't get nominated. I'm sure the same feelings are in the theater community with regards to the actual Payne nominees.

Maybe it's stress and friction we don't want.

[ratliff]

Exactly. An award is by definition arbitrary. It seems like we're more interested in raising awareness than we are in cutthroat competition amongst troupes, so really, what would it matter who won?

Having irritated half of PGraph, I feel my work here is done.

[Jeff]

Maybe it's stress and friction we don't want.

My perspective may not be as relevant as that of some high-rolling, big family-bringing well-connected arts patron, but I've been going to live theatre shows in Austin for 15 years, and I'd never heard of the BIP awards until earlier this year on these forums.

[York99]

They're putting the award in the hands of the people most qualified to award it, in much the same way that technical Oscars are voted on by members of that profession.

Interesting idea here. However, what puts us in the technical Oscars category vs. the other Oscars categories?

The hard-to-swallow answer is simply that other voters, on the whole, don't know what we do. I have to think that's a cop out, though. Most Oscar voters don't know what it takes to adapt a screenplay or documentary short either.

I don't think it's a slight with malicious intent. I think it's an oversight. And it should change.

[ratliff]

Okay. So if I'm reading this thread right, the point is not actually to honor the most accomplished improv group but rather to get the category on the ballot to raise awareness of improv?

I'm not being sarcastic; I'm asking.

There's no way to ensure that voters see everything on the ballot, so they're asked to vote only for things that they've seen. Are we prepared to have the nominees and then the winner of Best Improv Group determined by whatever percentage of ACoT members have seen improv? Because that seems to be what we're agitating for.

We can't make anyone come see improv. They'll come if they want to, but if they don't they just won't vote in that category. If we insist on improv awards being handled the same way as other awards, we are drastically diminishing the number of improv-aware people who will be voting on them. Depending on what we're trying to achieve, that might be a worthwhile trade-off, but let's go into it with our eyes open.

[Wesley]

I've been going to live theatre shows in Austin for 15 years, and I'd never heard of the BIP awards until earlier this year on these forums.
But people in the artistic community have. And if we want to collaborate with those people moving forward--to raise our awareness, not just to the public, but to other artists--this is a damn fine chance to do so. If we want to get space at other venues, having these awards to "validate" us is a great foot in the door.

If we have an award is another discussion and somewhat besdie the point for me, as is who wins it. Of course it is arbitrary and hopefully we're all mature enough not to go moping around if our troupe doesn't get it. However, it was my understanding that we did have an award, and if that is the case, I'd like us to get proper mention and recognition for it is all, especially if we're hoping having such an award would expose us to more of the artistic community in town.