top of your intelligence

improvstitute · Post by **improvstitute** » April 27th, 2007, 4:44 pm

deroosisonfire wrote:Explaining your jokes is one of the fastest ways to turn me off when I'm watching someone perform.

You must have seen my last show!

ChrisTrew.Com · Post by **ChrisTrew.Com** » April 27th, 2007, 5:41 pm

Don't give the audience what they want. They don't know what they want.

shando · Post by **shando** » April 27th, 2007, 5:52 pm

ChrisTrew.Com wrote:Don't give the audience what they want. They don't know what they want.

Chris, I couldn't disagree with you more. Put on the show you want to see, and the audience will want to see it too, which is maybe what you're saying. Sure. And don't try to guess what the audience wants, because it'll probably be limiting to both you as a performer and the audience, got ya. But to treat the audiences as blank slates who are robot idiots who have no ideas about what's a quality show, meh. That's bullshit and lazy.

And as a sidenote note, most if the shitty improv I've seen has come from people who don't understand the audience as real human beings. Either they pander to cartoonish assumptions about who I am, or they say fuck you to me by presenting rambly, random bullshit under the guise of being radical.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » April 27th, 2007, 6:12 pm

I'm pretty sure Terp was saying "Never pander." Which can also be translated to mean "Treat the audiences like geniuses, and they'll respond like geniuses."

As we all know, most people hate being geniuses.

York99 · Post by **York99** » April 27th, 2007, 6:40 pm

Jastroch wrote:I'm pretty sure Terp was saying "Never pander." Which can also be translated to mean "Treat the audiences like geniuses, and they'll respond like geniuses."

As we all know, most people hate being geniuses.

I am positive that's what Terp is saying. "Treat the audience like geniuses" is a mantra we repeat often, as teachers and performers.

Further, "they don't know what they want" means to surprise them. They think they want the hillbilly to be dumb, but what they don't know that they want is for the hillbilly to be smarter than they are... even using fancy words like 'nepotism.'

York99 · Post by **York99** » April 27th, 2007, 6:45 pm

** Edit:

Nevermind. Just talked to him. Chris meant to treat the audience like a blank slate and be as rambly as you like.

My bad.

shando · Post by **shando** » April 27th, 2007, 7:04 pm

Jastroch wrote:I'm pretty sure Terp was saying "Never pander." Which can also be translated to mean "Treat the audiences like geniuses, and they'll respond like geniuses."

As we all know, most people hate being geniuses.

If this is what's meant, then we're in violent agreement. And given my usual inability to tell when Justin's joking, we're still in agreement. And yes, I think one should surprise and delight audiences and be fresh. But when I hear "The audience doesn't know what they want," I'm dubious. They're the audience. They've come to the show. There is a tacit agreement there from the opening moment that you, the performer, are ready to give the audience a show that's worth their time, no matter what shape that takes. That's what they want. If as performers we're not cognizant of that, we don't deserve an audience.

shando · Post by **shando** » April 27th, 2007, 7:07 pm

York99 wrote:They think they want the hillbilly to be dumb...

Why make these assumptions? I don't think my audience wants the hillbilly to be dumb, and I suspect you don't really think that either. So whence the animosity? To surprise you have to know what's surprising from their point of view. Surprise, sure. Disregard, I don't think so.

nadine · Post by **nadine** » April 27th, 2007, 8:49 pm

i thought it meant don't play stupid stereotypes..
so if you're playing an asian, play the asian to the top of your intelligent... as opposed to one that's in a laundramat saying me so horny.

Wesley · Post by **Wesley** » April 27th, 2007, 10:39 pm

nadine wrote:so if you're playing an asian, play the asian to the top of your intelligent... as opposed to one that's in a laundramat saying me so horny.

You just summed up the height of my intelligence as it relates to Asians.

ChrisTrew.Com · Post by **ChrisTrew.Com** » April 28th, 2007, 1:49 am

me so horny

York99 · Post by **York99** » April 28th, 2007, 1:53 am

shando wrote:
York99 wrote:They think they want the hillbilly to be dumb...
Why make these assumptions?

Again, I think we're tiptoeing around the same point. I don't mean they want the hillbilly to be dumb because that's as far as they can see with the hillbilly; I mean they want him to be dumb because that's what they're conditioned to seeing. From old Bob Hope through Hee Haw to the Blue Collar Comedy Tour... the stereotype lives on. The audience didn't know they wanted a hillbilly physics professor until they see Tami bust that out in a show.

I think Nadine actually summed it up better and more succinctly than I.

Miggy · Post by **Miggy** » April 28th, 2007, 8:28 pm

nadine wrote:so if you're playing an asian, play the asian to the top of your intelligent...

Isn't that in itself a stereotype? I think you're screwed either way.

Roy, nepotism is not a big word. Like Kareem's use of a Miles Davis reference, you need to assume some basic cultural literacy from your audience. Using the Peloponnesian Wars is fair game, too, if used in general terms and its contextual. I love trivia but I hate it when it's left to hang out there in a show to stand on its own. I've done it lots of times...I'm not claiming innocence. I remember once for a show we got a suggestion of "sugar cubes". At some point in the show I subtly endowed Sara as Bjork and we had what turned out to be a great scene about breaking up with a band. Two people in the back of the Hideout actually said out loud "I get it! The Sugar Cubes!". I'm not sure how many other people got it, but they had a solid scene played for them and for those two people at least...well...they got a bonus.

Now there's a risk of doing things like this and especially when endowing real, famous or historical characters as a part of that trivia - your partner has to know exactly who you are endowing them as or who you yourself are playing.

Anyway - i always appreciate posts on the Improv Theory & Practice thread. Thanks! Love 'em.

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » April 29th, 2007, 2:00 am

I was taught that the audience is always several steps ahead of what we're doing onstage -- consciously or unconsciously, they have expectations for what will happen next. If you meet those expectations dead-on, they will be satisfied; if you meet them in a surprising way, they will be delighted; if you defy them, they will feel cheated. So we teach improvisers to be obvious, to learn the art of setting up and paying off expectations.

That's one of the main differences I see in Johnstone versus other training styles. Johnstone loves to find new ways of creating that feedback loop, learning how to improvise in ways that delight the audience and your fellow players. The King Game, Flashlight Theatre, What Comes Next?, Story Spine -- they all build those expectation muscles.

shando · Post by **shando** » April 29th, 2007, 10:00 am

acrouch wrote:I was taught that the audience is always several steps ahead of what we're doing onstage -- consciously or unconsciously, they have expectations for what will happen next. If you meet those expectations dead-on, they will be satisfied; if you meet them in a surprising way, they will be delighted; if you defy them, they will feel cheated. So we teach improvisers to be obvious, to learn the art of setting up and paying off expectations.

That's one of the main differences I see in Johnstone versus other training styles. Johnstone loves to find new ways of creating that feedback loop, learning how to improvise in ways that delight the audience and your fellow players. The King Game, Flashlight Theatre, What Comes Next?, Story Spine -- they all build those expectation muscles.

Word.