Advertising improv to minorities...

[ratliff]

Jastroch, you're not being a dick -- well, not any more so than usual, anyway -- and I think I understand where you're coming from.

One of the huge problems with racism and other forms of exclusion is that when they're raised as an issue, people take it personally, like a moral judgment. As in, "Are you calling me a racist?"

I think the left has always done a shitty job with this, because on the one hand there's an argument (that I buy into) that says that racism is sort of bred into us by the culture and that we're all stricken with it to some degree. Call it the disease model of racism. But on the other hand, accusations of racism are routinely used to shame people.

Well, make up your friggin' minds. If we're all soaking in it from the time we're born, don't try to make people feel shitty for manifesting that. If it's completely and totally under each person's control, stop assuming it's everywhere before you deal with individual instances.

The reason I bring this up is that I think we would be well served by removing as much of the moral component as possible and talking about this in practical terms. In other words, I'm not that interested in the question of whether we're racist, because I can't really do anything about that. But if I think we would benefit from more black players, which I do, I can do something about it, like start a "Negro Finding Committee."

The problem with waiting for market forces, or whatever, to make that happen on its own is that improv is by definition an exclusive community that requires a certain amount of cojones (I mean that in a non-gender-specific way) to attempt to join. You say we're not actively excluding anyone, and I think that's true. But are we passively excluding anyone?

Let me give you a weird example: I noticed early on that a lot more improvisers were into fantasy and science fiction and D&D than I am. I remember watching barprov at the Carousel one night and being completely baffled by a joke that everyone else found hysterically funny.

So I went home that night and Googled "Optimus Prime" and added to my knowledge base. End of story. But my point is this: What if I had been the only black guy in that bar and hadn't gotten the joke? Would it have been ridiculous for me to assume that my experience was so different from these people's that I wouldn't have anything to contribute, or that I wouldn't want to play with them? Would it have been unreasonable for me to assume that this had something to do with differing cultural backgrounds, instead of the impossibly high percentage of geeks (I use the word lovingly) who do improv?

Maybe so. But I'm a straight middle-class white male, the very definition of mainstream, and I felt excluded. So where does that leave someone who knows from firsthand experience that he's routinely treated differently? We're a group who all know each other and enjoy safety in numbers. Why is it HIS job to put aside all his apprehensions and make the effort? Would it kill us to extend a little extra welcome? Not to make him feel better. Not to make us feel better. Just because, through nobody's fault, there's a bigger gap to be bridged.

We all have a limited set of assumptions. But part of the problem is that we don't know what our own limitations are. So we may be sending all kinds of signals that we don't even know about. I have been in a situation where someone made a joke about Huston-Tillotson, under the impression that it was a school for massage therapists. She was gently corrected by someone who attended Huston-Tillotson, which is actually Austin's historically black college. Was the first woman being intentionally racist? No. Was she demonstrating a huge ignorance of black life in this city? Yes. Do you see how, with no bad intent on anyone's part, a person could feel excluded?

I repeat: This is not a moral issue. It's practical.

For one thing, we have to admit the possibility that improv is something that appeals primarily to white performers and audiences, like bluegrass or Dane Cook. If people don't want to do it, they're not going to do it.

But I think it's worth the effort. Not to fill a quota or to be better people, but because the more different kinds of people we have doing improv, the better for the scene. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there more cross-pollination going on in Austin between different schools of improv than anywhere else in the country? Tell me that's not a good thing.

Okay, now what if we added people from a bunch of different backgrounds with different takes on everything and then we all got to play with them all the time? We'd stretch ourselves and our assumptions, and we'd learn a shitload, that's what. Our improv scene would be richer and more complicated and more vibrant and appeal to more people and get taken even more seriously by the local arts community. And next year at OoB people would once again view the Austin scene with awe and wonder, which is of course the real point of all of this.

Seeking diversity is not an exercise in liberal hand-wringing or an attempt to atone for being bad racists. It is a realistic, practical way to enlarge our community and engage the larger world instead of expecting it to come looking for us. If it works, it will make us bigger and better. If it doesn't, well, what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, and at least we tried.

[mcnichol]

This is an interesting topic. And one that seems to hit close to the heart with most people here.

I think alot of what it comes down to -- for why people feel we should or shouldn't do this -- is bottom-line reason why we want to do it, or the outcome we hope comes from doing something like this. If we do a Hawaiian night, and attract a lot of Hawaiians, and they now feel o.k. to see/do improv... I guess, why wouldn't they have felt safe before? Do Hawaiians see improv as a "white" artform necessarily? Or do they just not care? Or do some hawaiians see/do improv, and many others just watch sports or work late, like anyone else? Do we want Hawaiians to feel good about improv, or do we improvisors want to feel good about us including Hawaiians?

I'm just playing the Devil's Advocate, asking these questions, so please don't assume I am countering someone's opinion (and get pissy here).

This reminds me of a few months back when P-graph and Tight (and others) tried to get a show for the deaf together. We started planning a lot of this out, but one part of the planning that wasn't happening was from the side of the TX School for the Deaf. Calls had been placed to them, pitching the idea for the show and talking about dates and resources for signers, but they didn't really seem to jump at this idea. To be honest, I don't even remember if they ever returned the multiple calls/emails that were made to them. And it was at that point that I started to wonder if we were doing this show for ourselves or for deaf people. It seemed like we were way more excited to include deaf people in our shows than they were itching to be finally seeing an improv show. And it felt weird, trying to get to the bottom of what was really driving us to that show.

editted to add:

For one thing, we have to admit the possibility that improv is something that appeals primarily to white performers and audiences, like bluegrass or Dane Cook. If people don't want to do it, they're not going to do it.

But I think it's worth the effort. Not to fill a quota or to be better people, but because the more different kinds of people we have doing improv, the better for the scene. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS.

exactly. ratliff is(are) awesome because he's so damn smart and thoughtful.

[Jastroch]

Ok. What's the point of your post? To say that Wes shouldn't even bother?

Not really.

I think you read into that that I don't want minorities involved in improv. Or maybe that diversity isn't worth while.

Hell yeah I'd be excited if there were people from New Orleans signing up for improv. For about ten minutes, then I'd judge them accordingly. I'm not taking out ads in "New Orleans in Austin Magazine." It's also two totally different things.

It just seems to me that maybe taking out an ad or approaching someone based on race is a little condescending. Like maybe we're compensating for our own liberal guilt.

Also, I posed the question, "Am I being a dick?" Which you didn't answer. Because I'm extra paranoid, suffering from my own liberal guilt.

[Jastroch]

But if I think we would benefit from more black players, which I do, I can do something about it, like start a "Negro Finding Committee."...

Not to fill a quota or to be better people, but because the more different kinds of people we have doing improv, the better for the scene. WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there more cross-pollination going on in Austin between different schools of improv than anywhere else in the country? Tell me that's not a good thing.

... We'd stretch ourselves and our assumptions, and we'd learn a shitload, that's what. Our improv scene would be richer and more complicated and more vibrant and appeal to more people and get taken even more seriously by the local arts community. And next year at OoB people would once again view the Austin scene with awe and wonder, which is of course the real point of all of this.

Thank you. That's what I wanted to hear. My only issue remains that the process seems a little forced.

[Jastroch]

Do we want Hawaiians to feel good about improv, or do we improvisors want to feel good about us including Hawaiians?

It's hard to say, but a lot of this discussion reeks of the latter, which is why I brought it up. Or maybe I'm projecting.

For the record, I have never met a Hawaiiian I haven't liked.

[nadine]

First let me say, Ratliff, you're darn eloquent, and you're awesome.

For one thing, we have to admit the possibility that improv is something that appeals primarily to white performers and audiences, like bluegrass or Dane Cook. If people don't want to do it, they're not going to do it.

It is a possibility, but I refuse to believe it. The reason is this: I used to be really involved in renaissance dance. Looked up manuscripts, translated medieval italian, went to workshops all over the country doing it. And yeah, usually there was only 2 Asians, including me.

One day, I went to California and saw an Early Dance performance (not just renaissance, but also 20s, victorian, etc). And I was shocked. There was a lot of Asians in the audience. But there was also a lot of Asians performing. Here was an artform that was very Western, and it wasn't even current, it was early dance. Most whites don't even know it exists! What's all the Asians doing in this room?!

And I would think there's less reasons for Asians to learn 15th Century Italian Dance, then there is to learn improv.

[beardedlamb]

i have to say that i noticed a marked increase in asian audience members for the Room to Improv (all Asian-American troupe from Cali) show at oob. i was in the booth and i saw these dudes who took a class from me 3 years ago right before i moved. i hadn't seen them at the hideout since then. it was a very unique situation. i publicized the class like normal for anyone to see and sign up. these four asian guys from an all asian-american troupe on campus called the silk mangos (still love that name) saw the poster and signed up. it was actually very interesting and i noticed that some of the stories they told were told BY asian-americans. if that makes sense. i remember one longform that was about the plight of asian workers on the railroad back in the day. it was awesome and from then on i paid attention to where their stories were coming from.
i ramble but my initial point is that i didn't see those guys at any other shows during out of bounds. i didn't see a lot of the asians that showed up to see room to improv perform any other time that week. were they there to see an improv show or there to see asians?

take that for whatever its worth. i'm not going to speculate what that means because i'm truly torn on the issue. would it behoove us to spend dollars on advertising to a group that has not seeked us out when we barely advertise to the general public? probably not at this time. but i'm speaking about placing ads, not even flyering, postering, or contacting heads in these communities which i think is a great idea and almost totally free.

do GGG shows have more females in their audiences?
do you, me, and greg have more high school or early college aged audiences?

i agree we need 'em, i'm just not sure how to get 'em.

[nadine]

Also, I posed the question, "Am I being a dick?" Which you didn't answer. Because I'm extra paranoid, suffering from my own liberal guilt.

Well. I thought you were being a dick. But upon reflection, and several deep breaths, I realized that you were just being honest and sincerely wondering if the community was engaging in diversity masturbation.

Hmm. I'm not sure about this liberal guilt thing. I'd rather something not be done out of guilt, but more like.. Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if we had a black guy do a sketch about intolerence (or bling?)? Or if we had an improv scene in gibberish, except they were really talking Russian?

[ratliff]

For the record, I have never met a Hawaiiian I haven't liked.

My dyslexic id read this as: "For the record, I have never met a Hawaiian I haven't killed."

[nadine]

i didn't see a lot of the asians that showed up to see room to improv perform any other time that week. were they there to see an improv show or there to see asians?

I specifically went to see their show because I'd never seen an Asian troupe before.

And I was like.. hey! I've never seen this much Asians in the green room! How cool is that!?

They were enthusiastic and had great energy, but I'd take 3 for all over them any day

[Jastroch]

Well. I thought you were being a dick. But upon reflection, and several deep breaths, I realized that you were just being honest and sincerely wondering if the community was engaging in diversity masturbation.

Ding ding ding!

[Wesley]

Wow, what a can of worms I've opened. *evil grin*

Let me start and deal with some of the issues from my point of view as Austin Improv's new Minority Ambassador(tm).

1. Why me? Besides being the one person wildly unsuited for the role, I'm also the only person who raised my hand at the meeting. I also speak jive.
Personally, I have no "white" or "male" guilt and this is NOT a "moral" issue in any way for me. It is, as they say, strictly business (and the love of spreading the craft, blah blah blah).

2. I tend to care little about things such as race, but it cannot be denied that cultural subgroups, race included, "attract their own."
This happens for a variety of reasons. As much as we want to deny it, cultural mindsets are in fact different. Each culture has its own jargon, history, mythology, etc. Anyone who has watched any degree or anime, read manga, or watched Japanese movies knows first hand that there is a SHITLOAD of cultural imagery and shorthand going on that westerners are confused by (why is there always a male character with a rose? What's the deal with the fox and the peach?) Hell, their very story-telling structure is different. And while white people can watch and enjoy (maybe) Margaret Cho when she imitates her grandmother, I bet Koreans get an even bigger charge out of it ("My grandmother sounded just like that, too!). I do it myself. If you said "Hey Wes, there's a bagpipe band on 5th street and a slam poet jam on 7th." Guess which way I'm headed?
The point is, I want improv to grow and--as with trying to do a show for the deaf--it is hard to entice a community that views stories and the world differently than you if you cannot meet their expectations. And it's not that I'm afraid of butchering other cultures (I'm American, it's what my people do), I just can't reach them on the subtle levels that "one of their own" could. Improv is story telling and each culture has their own stories. The more diverse our population, the more diverse the stories we can deliver. We always talk about "adding tools to our tool belt" with new edits, etc. Well, diverse backgrounds and styles are merely additional tools in the entire community's tool belt.
I think improv itself transcends race, but the stories our community tells tend to be very based in "white" experiences. The issues our characters face, the way they achieve resolution, hell, even the diseases they get (Awwww, cancer again...) are "white."
(Someone call me the second a doctor diagnoses a patient with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease or Sickle Cell in a scene.) Bringing in more diversity expands the potential market for our product.

3. Some people do think it is an issue and do notice it.
Take our discussion of the lack of females in the OoB headlining show for example. While such a thing never crossed my mind, the females in the audience did seem to notice and felt compelled enough to comment on it. Substitute females with black, gay, Jewish, whatever and the fact is that even if someone comes and has a generally good time, if they felt isolated, they felt isolated. They might not return.

4. It is a chance to reach out artistically to other groups.
Phil's slam poetry and improv is a fine example. Slam poetry already draws a more diverse audience. By mixing the two and inviting them into our space, we can bring some of their audience with them. The same is true of sketch troupes, singers, and many other artistic avenues. Reaching out culturally will only expand our offerings as well and hopefully interest those cultures in what we do.

5. "Themed shows." This is something I don't mind, but I want nothing to do with. I don't want to say "Sunday is gay night, wear your feather boas girls!" However, if a groups of improv students who happened to be gay took classes and formed a troupe and said "We want to do a gay themed night," I'd say more power to them. I think Miggy's idea was a good one, but not one we can dictate. Like the LCP--they formed on their own to service and speak to their own community in ways that ColdTowne or Pgraph simply couldn't.

6. Because cultures tend to travel in their own circles, it is entirely possible that these groups simply don't know we exist.
Advertsing to a subgroup isn't pandering, it's just advertising in a specialty publication. I didn't know about the Lindy community in town until I specifically went looking--despite it thriving for years right under my nose. We don't say "Hey, you're black, come see a show." We just say "There's this thing going on in Austin and we don't know if you've heard about it. We want everyone to know about it and experience it so you should come check it out."

7. Finally, gay people are fun to hang out with and we need more in the community. They also know what TV shows are popular and can help us with the next Cops & Lawyers-like show parody.

[taminelson]

coldtowne has met and agreed that the only way we will participate further in the AIC is if the hideout is blacks only and coldtowne theater is whites only.

excuse me, i have to go put on my blackface....AGAIN.

[Miggy]

First off, I'd like to say it's nice to see hyper-literate people debate serious topics with real-world implications and still maintain a sense of humor. Bravo.

Second, I applaud Wes for both starting this topic and for doing a wrap up with a nice little summary.

I particularly applaud item number 6 on his list and hope that that's what we walk away from this discussion with. It was something in my original post that might have been lost with hub-ub over themed evenings, but I really do believe that our art-form is not well understood. It's not merely that awareness isn't there in this community or that community.... I don't think it's there in the majority of any coomunity. People don't know that there are, say, bagpipe bands in Austin, but worse they don't even know what bagpipe music sounds like and they certainly don't think they should care much less come out and pay to see it. What's most important for us at this stage in our development is to make people aware of what improv is....... and then reinforce that they can check it out at one of two local theatres and occasional other venues around town. To do that we need to get out of the theatre and into the places people currently live their lives or seek entertainment.

Also... as a matter of bringing statistics into the discussion, I pulled up the demographics on Austin. (http://austintx.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm ) This particular site probably undercalls it for a couple of important reasons (using 6 year old data from the last census and only counting people within the city limits). Anyway....there are approximately 350k whites, 200k Hispanic, 66k Black, 31k Asian and 10k of other races.

[Wesley]

Not in my white-as-snow zip code! The things you can learn online...

White population: 23,961 (93.45%)
Black population: 149 (0.58%)
American Indian population: 57 (0.22%)
Asian population: 1,154 (4.5%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander population: 7 (does not even compute)
Some other race population: 312 (1.21%)

78746, It's not just a zip code, it's an incredibly homogeneous zip code.