Notes at rehearsal vs after a show

[dukeharbison]

They both have their advantages and disadvantages but which do you think is best for a troupe?

When I coach and play I prefer at rehearsal. I use it as a memory exercise. The things you remember are normally the meat. The strong relationships, great characters, awesome lines, etc. What's forgotten by the players is normally for a good reason. It's the coach's job to highlight why we remember certain things and forgot others. This normally isn't hard because 9 out of 10 times the scenes and things the coach has notes for are the same scenes and things that have been forgotten by the players. You find yourself in rehearsal using words like memorable and forgotten instead of good and bad or right and wrong. Players take their guards down and feel involved in notes as opposed to sitting there and having notes given to them. Plus it's rehearsal. That's when you're supposed to be doing work. When you do notes after a show you're training your mind to asses how your show went after a show instead of just enjoying your night and not worrying about it. There will always be a certain amount of post show assessment but I think rehearsal notes keeps it to a minimum...any thoughts?

[Roy Janik]

I don't know what the right thing to do is, but I do know that I can't get my mind off the show that just happened. So doing notes is almost a compulsion, because I need to talk about it with someone.

Now, granted, my troupe doesn't have a coach, so the dynamic's a little different.

But our notes are usually generalities rather than specifics... like, "We should have had more energy at the top" or "It was okay that everything didn't resolve" or what have you.

[Lants]

I feel like if it's a troupe giving each other notes, then right after the show isn't as big of a deal, but with a non-playing coach, it can seem like a total buzz-kill.

Especially if the troupe felt good about the show.

What kind of seed is that going to plant in the players that after the fun comes the bum? Positivity is so important to a troupe and even if you are a good "note-taker" and even if the notes are generally positive ones, the worry can set in if you're used to being knocked down while still riding a show-high.

When were playing our first few shows, Coach Jastroch would often email us notes later that night then we would talk about them in the next rehearsal. I liked this because it was fresh in his mind, but not so fresh it hurt that after-show glow.

Of course, the other side of this is that if the troupe is already feeling bad about the show afterward, the notes could end up feeling like more of a pep-talk.

I'm looking at all of this as it applies to newer troupes since I feel like a troupe that's been doing it for a while probably already knows what everyone is comfortable doing and does it that way.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

i like general notes at rehearsal (ie: "things to work on"), but i much prefer discussing specifics after a show. my brain is still rushing and more receptive to information, and you can get down into the nuts and bolts of how those "things to work on" applied practically onstage. i've also never really had a "coach" in the troupes i've been in...so notes have typically been less of a "this guy is going to lecture you on what and what not to do" and more a round table discussion usually led by an appointed or de facto "director" moreso than a coach. which is nice, because while an outside observer's perspective is helpful, i find myself more concerned with how the mechanics within the ensemble itself are working. if someone feels like i was stealing focus from them or really liked how i endowed them, i want to know that. i don't know how well that would work in a troupe where everyone's kind of been thrown together out of a class or workshop or something (the one troupe i've been on like that, for instance, wasn't comfortable enough to handle ANY kind of notes together until several months after we were formed. people got too guarded and defensive)...but for a troupe of friends who have CHOSEN to play together out of common purpose and vision, it's always been my favorite.

[ratliff]

i've also never really had a "coach" in the troupes i've been in...so notes have typically been less of a "this guy is going to lecture you on what and what not to do"

If this is all your coach does, of course you don't want notes after a show. If you see improv as a set of rules that either you follow or fail to follow, it's depressing to be hit with a multicount indictment right as you walk offstage, no matter how well or poorly the show went. But if that's all the coach is doing, it can easily wait until rehearsal, because it's basically a checklist based on external, observable facts that the collective memory can agree on.

I think with beginning groups the coach's job is often the opposite, to help them see what was wonderful about a show they don't feel good about. The point isn't to blow smoke up their asses so much as to put the show in context and to remind them that the seemingly positive and seemingly negative aspects are all necessary and all part of the same process.

More experienced improvisers think less in terms of "right" and "wrong" (at least, I hope they do), and are more likely to look at the show in holistic terms ("we lost energy in the third beat") AND be much more aware of their own perception, feeling, and intuition during the show ("I just knew that I wanted you to have something of mine").

This last point is, to me, the main argument for notes immediately after a show, because while you may remember what happened during a show, it's much harder to recapture the feeling of a show. And this feeling is as important -- for the kind of improv I want to do, it's MORE important -- than the external events captured on the video recording.

I feel like the notes process is very similar to writing down your dreams. There's a strong temptation to not break the spell, to linger in the dream world you've created, instead of breaking down what happened. You don't want to deconstruct the mystery just yet, and it feels so vivid that you're absolutely sure you'll remember it later. But if you wait till later, you find that while you can remember the details of what happened, the feeling is gone and can't be recaptured.

So I completely understand the desire to not drag dreams into the real world immediately afterward. But I also know from my own experience that it's the only way I'm likely to learn anything from them.

[Asaf]

After a show, I try to keep notes very short and they touch on two things:

1) What were the most fun/strongest parts of the show? Those two things are usually the same.

2) What are the challenges for next time?

Notes are always about the next time you are going to improvise. If you keep about that, it is hard to make it a buzzkill.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

If this is all your coach does, of course you don't want notes after a show. If you see improv as a set of rules that either you follow or fail to follow, it's depressing to be hit with a multicount indictment right as you walk offstage, no matter how well or poorly the show went. But if that's all the coach is doing, it can easily wait until rehearsal, because it's basically a checklist based on external, observable facts that the collective memory can agree on.

I think with beginning groups the coach's job is often the opposite, to help them see what was wonderful about a show they don't feel good about. The point isn't to blow smoke up their asses so much as to put the show in context and to remind them that the seemingly positive and seemingly negative aspects are all necessary and all part of the same process.

ah, okay...that sounds much better and more productive. like i said, i've never really been on a troupe that had a coach so i wasn't sure what their function was. not that i thought they were having the imps run wind sprints and getting in their face when they missed an offer.

that said...clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose.

i agree with the rest of your post on notes after a show. i know "strike while the iron is hot" has kind of just become a cliche platitude, but it's important to remember the reason you do that is because that's when the metal is most malleable.

[jillybee72]

I use the notes after the show as inspiration for what to plan for the next rehearsal.

[beardedlamb]

notes after the show. the best time to improve or be rewarded is as close as possible to the behavior. those things are linked stronger the closer that happens.
and if a coach is killing your buzz after every show, maybe their style is not right for you and you need someone else.

[Jessica]

I think processing a show is pretty important. It seems to be one of those things that we need to do, if nothing else to check our own reality and judgment against others. But I'm not sure how helpful this is in the long term. For the shows that I'm in charge of, I've started allowing myself time to think about how the show went (much easier when I'm not in the show or if I have a tape to watch) then I look at what I can change for each actor or the ensemble, then I figure out exercises that we can do to work on those skills.

I may give a note or two, but if I do, it is usually in private, and it is only one thing that I really think the actor can either work on or take with them into the next show. And I try to keep it specific. "Wait another beat before you walk on stage." For someone that seems to be walking on from obligation instead of inspiration. Or "I love it when you play sweetly, I'd like to see more of that." For someone that seems to be hitting a negative note too often. General notes are really only for the entire ensemble. I don't feel it is okay to give a note to the entire group that we are don't have enough energy, if it was really only one or two people.

I think, really, the best way to have changes happen is to look at what is happening and try to correct that in warm-ups or rehearsals. If the group is not connecting, then I try to facilitate more of a hang out vibe in the green room. If someone is playing the same character over and over again, then I make them do exercises that get them to do something else. Story is very important for FTM, so I always make sure we have a story warm up. In some ways directing feels a lot like teaching to me.

I think notes have a danger of getting people in their heads, much better to help them get the change in their body and performance.

This is one of the things I love about directing - the challenge of taking good people and supporting them to be even better. So damn cool!

[PyroDan]

In all instances I don't prefer to give, or recieve notes after a show in a formal manner.

I think it is inheirent that all involved will critique the performance of themselves and the group in a critical, but non-judgemental manner in conversation over beers, or whatever, since most of us hang with other improvisors as they may be the only ones to put up with us. That also tends to be positive heavy and recieved well.

I think the only way to examine a show completely is if it is taped (if you can) So you can experience as an audience member, and your recollection of what occured won't be clouded with a biased rememberance; ie, 'I thought my kangaroo on meth was hilarious, it got laughs'

It is like watching game film, you can truly observe tendencies, and assess choices with more than the glorious laughter you recall as an indicator. I also believe that is the only way a Player/Coach can operate honestly (this may only apply to the less adept coach/directors).

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

i can't stand watching a show on tape afterwards. for some odd reason, even with the best of shows, watching it on tape sucks all of the energy out of it for me. for me, it's an artifact...you can observe it, dissect it, draw lessons from it, but there's no immediacy, no engagement. i've watched some of the best shows i've ever been in on tape and been utterly disenchanted. doing notes in the moment, you're still vibing on that energy. and not just going out to a bar and discussing (which is also valid and i love doing), but genuinely sitting down for even a quick session of notes when the blood and adrenaline are still pumping and the chi is still glowing blue and bright...that has way more of an impact on me than going over it a day or two later in some post mortem report on the mechanics of memory.

[hujhax]

Me, I get a lot out of watching show videos, but YMMV.  I know I have considerable trouble with notes immediately after a show, because immediately after a show I usually have no idea what I just did.  And even when I remember stuff, I only have really vague impressions of what went right/wrong.

It's kind of like when I read a script.  On a first pass, I'll notice (say) that I got bored on page 10, but I'll have no idea why I got bored.  I'll have to pick over it a bit more to notice (say) that the hero had an inconsistent motivation in that scene.  (The same holds for watching stuff:  "Hey Peter, what did you think of the movie we just saw?"  "Not sure yet.  I should know in a couple of days.")

So if I watch a video, I finally see what was going on, and I can go over it a bit to see what's working/not-working under the surface.  (Basically, I can engage the review-writing part of my brain to help out with improv.)  In my limited experience, it's that underlying/general stuff that points me at things to work on in the future.

Plus there's all sorts of stuff I only notice on video.  ("Wow, I fidget a lot.")

But again, this is just what's working for me lately.  Note that I'm rillyrilly analytical, and I've built up something of a tolerance for watching improv on tape.



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peter rogers @ work | http://hujhax.livejournal.com

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[sara farr]

At the rehearsal... unless you don't have them.

I like to give POSITIVE notes about character/scene/story choices after a show. If you're wanting ppl to hear critical feedback, there is a 5:1 ratio of positive:negative critical feedback. SCIENCE MORE SCIENCE
Also, if you set objectives before the show, might be nice to check in to see if you met them. If you're working on one thing, others may slip.

If anything bugs me enough to hold onto it until the next rehearsal, then let the rehearsal can address that. I like the idea that the notes from the previous show drive PART of the rehearsal... but not necessarily all of it.

The more shows I do, the less important notes become. Guess it depends on who you're working with and how long you've been together.

Micetro post-show notes are getting better -- getting faster and keying into how to play the game, or help the scene work.

Comedy Sportz post-show notes are the same -- format is rigid; troupe records the notes in a book, and then posts them for the group on their website. Those who weren't in the show can read them online. Large issues are addressed in the following rehearsals.

[kbadr]

Johnstone made some comment about only doing notes for 5 or 10 minutes, and I think he's right in a way. You're beating a dead horse and being indulgent (one way or another) after that.

I think the tighter and more experienced a group gets, the more focused the notes can be. Pgraph's usually got pretty well-defined goals for a given show, and we all know what we're capable of, so it's pretty easy and efficient to say "something tripped us up in scene X" or "we needed to identify the protagonist sooner" or some such.