Thoughts on downloading media for free

shando · Post by **shando** » January 26th, 2009, 3:54 pm

Bob's original post on the subject, in response to something I wrote here. Cody chimed in with this. Now I think we should have this conversation over here.

TexasImprovMassacre · January 26th, 2009, 4:36 pm

good call moving this here. No need to bump up that thread's number of vies anymore than necessary.

Good thing nobody can steal live improv...except for the secret sneak ins

Frank · Post by **Frank** » January 26th, 2009, 4:45 pm

We're experiencing a continuing paradigm shift in the way media are distributed and sold. Broadband changes everything. If I could stream the TV programs I want to watch for a fee, I'd pay it. That would be a market in action, instead of all this bs cable bundling. But the lawyers in charge of copyright don't make a buck if it's distributed that way. Their job depends on breaking the deal. I got a nasty call from Grande the other day saying that someone was downloading copyrighted material on my connection. I felt bad for the guy on the other end, because that's his job to harass people and I'm sure it must eat his soul and he probably goes home and drinks and cries himself to sleep because his job is such bullshit. I dream of the day when I can pay 25 cents an episode to watch some ridiculous show that only 10,000 people in the world watch; that's $2500 an episode which just might keep the lights on for some upstart writer to try something new and make a buck with his art.

Lants · Post by **Lants** » January 26th, 2009, 5:09 pm

It's very interesting to watch it all happen.

I also find it interesting to see where people's limits are as far as what they will and won't pay for with digital media. Myself included.

For some reason, I have weird rules I've made for myself:

- Don't download movies: this is probably because I went to film school and have worked in film... Also, films don't make their money from live tours and t-shirts...which an album is just a commercial for.

- Don't download comedy albums: -again, I'm a comedian... if I ever made an album, how could I expect someone to pay for my record if I don't pay to support these guys I love so much?

- If I really like an album I've DL'ed, I try to buy it on vinyl. Though, as of late, I have to LOVE an album to get it on vinyl.

Television is in such a fucked state right now that I almost feel like going out of my way to watch things illegally just so it'll collapse sooner.

Miggy · Post by **Miggy** » January 26th, 2009, 5:14 pm

I buy most everything used, but in physical format and while I did briefly do downloading several years ago, I avoid it now for three reasons. One is I lost all of it when my hard drive crashed and the loss and impermanence hurt more than it should have. Second is that I have one computer - my work computer - and it's not advised to tempt fates there. Lastly, I'm a part of a music label that puts out music and the primary goal is to get the music out into the world and we certainly give away a lot of promotional copies - but we still have production costs to cover. Sales are so deeply appreciated financially and otherwise, you have no idea. The experience has given me new perspective and anymore I don't care if it's Paul Mcartney or Michael Jackson or whomever - if you want their art - they either need to give it to you or you need to pay someone for the value of the physical artobject/media.

As for how I hear about music - it's mostly through word of mouth. My friends (including those on these forums) are far far deeper into the music scene than I am and while I have some unique choices or genres of my own, I'm mostly just playing catch up or filter to all of the music they expose me to and which I would like to own. I have an amazon wish-list a mile long and the related searches/lists on that site as well as the track samples are also helpful in making purchasing decisions.

I also have an amazon credit card which sends you gift certificates based on 1% of usage and it's good for anything including used cds bought through the site. It can be stretched pretty far typically so I'm not spending much of my own cash.

sara farr · Post by **sara farr** » January 26th, 2009, 7:42 pm

I want everything for free, instantly. But I give money to the artists I like.

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » January 27th, 2009, 9:36 am

here's some interesting recent reading/discussion on the subject: http://musicophilia.wordpress.com/2009/ ... -thoughts/

also... glad to see so many people chime in.

here some other thoughts i had reading some of this so far.

-what if you download something first and then pay the artist second if you listen to it beyond that initial pass? is this similar or different enough from a "listening booth" at a record store?

-is it ok to download things that are out of print or unavailable? what about a movie that's not on dvd? not on any format? an album thats not on cd? if it's only on vinyl, should you buy a turntable? what is its not available in this country?

-is it ok to download a tv show? what about a tv show that doesn't air in this country? is it more wrong to download an HBO show (because they are a subscription service) vs an NBC show (since they broadcast over the air), or is it the same case? who loses money in these cases?

ratliff · Post by **ratliff** » January 27th, 2009, 11:14 am

I used to be pretty self-righteous about buying music and not downloading it for free, until one day I realized that, from the artist's monetary point of view, there's no difference between someone downloading your CD for free and someone buying a used copy of the CD (which is what I used to do, mostly). In both cases, someone now has the music and the artist has not made a cent.

So now I guess my view is more, um, nuanced. I download most of my music off of eMusic, which comes out to about 30 cents a track. The fact is that I barely have time to listen to the music I buy, so while I heartily endorse the idea of downloading and then paying if you like it, I just don't have enough listening time to put that much music through the pipes. And because eMusic is all indie labels, I feel like there's a better chance that the artists are seeing some of the money.

I will download music from major labels for free in a heartbeat, for a number of reasons:

1. They had years to prepare an infrastructure to accommodate downloading. Instead they adopted the strategy of suing people.

2. The intellectual bankruptcy of their position has now been well established, e.g.: you're breaking the law if you even lend a CD to a friend. (No, I'm not making that up.) My personal boundary has been that I'm entitled to share music with anyone I know. File sharing is trickier to justify, but I manage (see below).

3. I have tried repeatedly to buy things legally only to find many obstacles in my path: they're not legally available, the song I want is only available as a part of an album, etc. If I try to give you money for something and you'll only take it with conditions attached, I'm going elsewhere. (My friend Glenn Brown, who is now a lawyer for Google, wrote his law school dissertation about the idea that forcing you to buy a whole album to get one song constituted illegal "bundling," a la Windows and Internet Explorer.)

4. Music industry contracts are the most rapacious, unfair, and stacked against the artist of any contracts in the entertainment industry. This is well documented by thousands of disgruntled musicians and producers, but whenever somebody takes them to court (Don Henley and Courtney Love both did it) they always wind up settling, so there's never any legal precedent established. Bono said that U2 made three huge hit records before it started making any money, and that was back when the industry was flush with cash.

I love P!nk, but P!nk will not notice whether or not I pay for her records, while it really might make a difference to Daturah or Grouper or Apparat.

valetoile · Post by **valetoile** » January 28th, 2009, 7:41 pm

if you are interested to know what music was released by an RIAA member, check http://www.riaaradar.com/

ratliff · Post by **ratliff** » January 28th, 2009, 10:02 pm

I don't think I made it clear what I meant by No. 4 above. It was that I have a moral problem with being accused of stealing from artists by people who have stolen more money from artists than I will see in a lifetime.

There, I think that's about self-righteous enough.

foshizzle · Post by **foshizzle** » February 3rd, 2009, 1:08 pm

I was at Indiana University when the RIAA first started targeting individuals. IU along with I believe Yale, USC, and 1 other school all settled and sold out their students anonimity to avoid being plaintiff's themselves.

Typically if I burn a CD from a friend and wind up liking it I will purchase it on CD or vinyl (if possible) just to support the artist. Like Bob, I am also more likely to go out and look for other works of theirs to purchase.

I still don't have an IPOD so I rarely download a song illegally or legally. When I do it is usually a song I can't find anywhere else, or a song parody that I think is funny.

The RIAA has subversively, though mostly legally, stacked the deck so much in their own favor at the expense of consumers and artists that it's difficult to have sympathy for them. At my core I am a capitalist, but I am aware that groups and individuals frequently use capitalism to take advantage of other groups and individuals within the confines of the law.

Brian Boyko · Post by **Brian Boyko** » February 4th, 2009, 9:48 am

I think I just realized that I have a movie from I Love Video in the trunk of my car that I forgot I rented three weeks ago and therefore haven't returned.