McCain denys women equality in the workplace

[LeannRose]

They just wanted to look like they were more diverse. It sucked.

That's the sort of thing I hate. Hire someone because they're qualified, not because you want to look good. If that means all you have are white males, so be it.

I'm sure there's an argument in there that discrimination is in the education system, which is why those white males have more education and you're trying to balance it, but then you'd have to keep going back far enough to the root and find there's probably some kind of discrimination in your parents choosing who to mate with and thus creating you in the particular environment and situation that may or may not discriminate you.

The best way to fix discrimination is to eliminate it from the start, rather than balance it out later, in effect discriminating against someone else, but honestly, where is the start?

[York99]

Here's the counter-point that muddies this issue:

When I was in business school I learned the great value of diversity. We had students of many ethnicities from all over the world. No doubt some of them got in over a more qualified white American. However, as someone in the program, I benefited so much simply from their different perspective. Had there been 120 sharp white guys there, each of our experiences would be diminished.

So while it sucks to those sharp white guys who didn't get in, it wouldn't have been "fair" to me to stick me in classes where we all had the same exact opinion.

There is no clear "right" answer here.

[KathyRose]

Taoism can also lead people to just accept their lot in life. Very popular in feudal China. Good for keeping people in their place.

Ooooooh - you make it sound like a government plot ...! No, it's just people choosing to live virtuous lives [imagine long discussion here, way beyond the scope of this thread], free of self-imposed oppression, and finding genuine happiness in doing so. It's not about "settling" for the left-overs. Taoists have also opposed tyrants (e.g. modern day Tibet vs. China), but they'd prefer to change the world by setting good examples for others to follow (like small-time versions of the Dalai Lama, Gandhi, Jesus Christ, etc.), rather than by trying to coerce change in others through governmental regulations.

Coercion (such as "equal opportunity" programs) might create the illusion of behavioral change, but the change only lasts as long as the regulations are enforced, and not even then, for those who get away with breaking the rules. Changing hearts is a much slower process, but is genuine and enduring. It is my belief that Obama has a much better chance of changing hearts than Clinton does, and that's my primary reason for supporting him.

It is also my belief that harpies with sexist chips on their shoulders do more harm than good to the ultimate goal of being accepted as "equals." Do you really want to claim an annoying, whining bitch as your equal? I certainly don't. Here's one example why ...

I worked 30 years for IBM as an engineer and software developer. When I joined the company in 1972, I was the ONLY woman engineer in the product development lab here in Austin. [Insert many funny stories here, to which some women might have taken offense, but I didn't. I had a blast.] Another woman was hired the year after me. She was a radical feminist nazi (just trying to paint a vivid picture here for you) who made the work environment miserable for me and everybody else. She didn't last long. I wouldn't be surprised if she sued the company on her way out.

I retired from that career in 2002, as a top-performing Senior Application Developer (highest rank possible w/o going into management - ick!) for IBM Corporate Marketing, reporting directly to HQ in Armonk. I didn't waste sleep or time worrying if a man in a similar position made more than I did. I was paid plenty and was totally happy with my "working conditions."*

Call it what you will, I have no complaints about my "lot in life."

* BTW - my last manager at corporate HQ, an exquisitely Jewish man & Hebrew scholar, one of the funniest and smartest people I will ever know, greeted me with "sweetheart" whenever I came to NY; and at the end of our last team meeting before I retired, he gave me a hug and a (fatherly) kiss - yes, an actual kiss, on IBM property, in front of the entire team, including women and a Director of the company! He wasn't being sexist. It was just a sincere expression of his warmest regard for me. The Director, a sentimental Canadian, also gave me a fatherly farewell kiss. I'm guessing it was a first for IBM retirement celebrations.

[Marc Majcher]

Taoism can also lead people to just accept their lot in life. Very popular in feudal China. Good for keeping people in their place.

I thought that was just religion in general.

Hey-O!

[Wesley]

Besides, this is why we all do improv anyway, right? No one gets paid anything, so it's like the ultimate level palying field.

[nadine]

It is also my belief that harpies with sexist chips on their shoulders do more harm than good to the ultimate goal of being accepted as "equals." Do you really want to claim an annoying, whining bitch as your equal? I certainly don't. Here's one example why ...
...
She was a radical feminist nazi (just trying to paint a vivid picture here for you) who made the work environment miserable for me and everybody else.

Kathy, not all feminists are "annoying", "whining", "harpies", "bitches" or "nazis". And some of them are happy, hippy, joyful, new-agey, and still proud to be a feminist.

Standing up for your rights can be done in many ways, and some of them include talking about it, and being firm. We don't label black people who try to stand up for their rights as "nazi" or "bitch"... so it's unfair to liberally pepper negative labels on women trying to stand up for their rights.

So far the discussion here has been pretty well spoken, and calm. I don't think anyone has been screeching like a "harpy".

As for Taoism, I only remarked on it because you mentioned it, not interested in a prolonged religious debate.

Cheers.

[nadine]

Taoism can also lead people to just accept their lot in life. Very popular in feudal China. Good for keeping people in their place.

I thought that was just religion in general.

Opiate of the masses and all.
But we have TV now.

[KathyRose]

not all feminists are "annoying", "whining", "harpies", "bitches" or "nazis". And some of them are happy, hippy, joyful, new-agey, and still proud to be a feminist.

oh, I totally agree. I didn't say they all were. I was just saying that it's the annoying, whining, harpie bitches (and you know that they're out there) who make it difficult for the happy, hippy, joyful, new-agey feminists to be heard.

I'm with the happy, hippy, joyful new-agey crowd. Couldn't you tell? I just used the other labels to make a point. Which obviously hit a nerve ... further illustrating the point of oversensitivity leading to overreactions.

p.s. Taoism is not a religion. It's a point of view.

[nadine]

Whatever.

[slappywhite]

Standing up for your rights can be done in many ways, and some of them include talking about it, and being firm. We don't label black people who try to stand up for their rights as "nazi" or "bitch"... so it's unfair to liberally pepper negative labels on women trying to stand up for their rights.

I was always a fan of Vagithug.

[kaci_beeler]

p.s. Taoism is not a religion. It's a point of view.

I beg to differ. I believe a point of view can be a religion.

And life takes all kinds, including all kinds of feminists.
I'm a happy and bitchy feminist.

What's that famous quote?
"Well behaved women rarely make history."
It's kinda cheesy, but I like it. It says to me, Kaci, you go out there and you go for it!

[kaci_beeler]

Also, hey, I notice a lot of thinly veiled name calling and patronizing going on here. That's not cool.