B. Iden Payne awards are here again

York99 · Post by **York99** » October 17th, 2007, 10:43 am

mcnichol wrote:Conversely, have improvisors found themselves going to more theater than before due to our involvement in ACOT?

Also, regarding 'legitimacy' -- we are already legitimate.

First point: outside of fiscal involvement, I don't feel like a part of ACoT.

Second point: I agree that we are legitimate. However, legitimacy -- like so many other things -- is based in perception. We should work toward being perceived as legitimate throughout the larger arts community.

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » October 17th, 2007, 10:56 am

York99 wrote:We should work toward being perceived as legitimate throughout the larger arts community.

That's kind of what I was getting at though -- we already do work towards that. The sticking point for me was the implication that legitimacy was something to be doled out to us by someone else (via this award), as opposed to working for it (and hard) as we already have been.

Here's the question I want to ask:

When will this award be judged/decided the same as every other ACOT award, decided upon by the members of the performing arts community as opposed to elected from within our little circle? What is the rationale for it not being decided in the same fashion currently?

York99 · Post by **York99** » October 17th, 2007, 10:59 am

mcnichol wrote:we already do work towards that. The sticking point for me was the implication that legitimacy was something to be doled out to us by someone else

When will this award be judged/decided the same as every other ACOT award, decided upon by the members of the performing arts community as opposed to elected from within our little circle? What is the rationale for it not being decided in the same fashion currently?

I think this is just one small piece to a larger, ongoing effort.

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » October 17th, 2007, 11:04 am

York99 wrote:I think this is just one small piece to a larger, ongoing effort.

Yeah, agreed.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » October 17th, 2007, 11:07 am

mcnichol wrote:When will this award be judged/decided the same as every other ACOT award, decided upon by the members of the performing arts community as opposed to elected from within our little circle? What is the rationale for it not being decided in the same fashion currently?

This was the point I had weeks ago, and the ensuing argument and disagreement made me lose all interest in the award.

Austin Improv Collective: We're Not The Bastard Child of Austin Theater

Dave · Post by **Dave** » October 17th, 2007, 12:54 pm

kbadr wrote:
mcnichol wrote:When will this award be judged/decided the same as every other ACOT award, decided upon by the members of the performing arts community as opposed to elected from within our little circle? What is the rationale for it not being decided in the same fashion currently?
This was the point I had weeks ago, and the ensuing argument and disagreement made me lose all interest in the award.

Austin Improv Collective: We're Not The Bastard Child of Austin Theater

Kareem, I wish you had said that you were abandoning this project as loudly as you had said you were spearheading it.

Everyone else, I am more than disappointed that we, as a community of 80+ strong, talked ourselves out of participating in this by bickering over it's merits. Boo on all of us.

If someone wants to include us as an artform in whatever citywide arts event comes our way...why would we turn our nose to it. Fear? Jealousy?
Are we too good and too popular now for a few more audience members and/or students who might think twice about what we do.

Anyone who came out and posted that this isn't worth our time...shame on you haters.
It's not about being seen as legitimate. It's about being active participants in a performing arts community.

We likely will not be asked back next year beacuse we couldn't find one person among us to figure in enough time to put something together. Me included.

We are dicks.

shando · Post by **shando** » October 17th, 2007, 12:57 pm

mcnichol wrote: What is the rationale for it not being decided in the same fashion currently?

This is the point Ratliff made a while ago. I think the rationale is that improv is a different beast in that to get a sense for the work being done by a given group, voters would need to see that group more than one time although now that I type that I'm not sure if that's really true. But I think that is both the gist of the rationale and John's thinking about it. And since there aren't that many people in the wider community (yet!) who see multiple groups multiple times they're not as informed as are those of us who perform improv. It's much easier for a voter to say "I saw Play A and Play B--I liked Play A's production better."

And Justin, I would say it's gesture of goodwill. They're not awarding a sketch comedy award or a stand-up award, and it's because those scenes here haven't gotten ACoT's attention. We have, and it's because they know as a community we're doing interesting and vital work.

shando · Post by **shando** » October 17th, 2007, 12:59 pm

Dave wrote:
kbadr wrote:
mcnichol wrote:When will this award be judged/decided the same as every other ACOT award, decided upon by the members of the performing arts community as opposed to elected from within our little circle? What is the rationale for it not being decided in the same fashion currently?
This was the point I had weeks ago, and the ensuing argument and disagreement made me lose all interest in the award.

Austin Improv Collective: We're Not The Bastard Child of Austin Theater
I wish Kareem had said that he was abandoing this project as loudly as he had said he was spearheading it.

I am more than disappointed that we, as a community of 80+ strong, talked ourselves out of participating in this by bickering over it's merits. Boo on all of us.

If someone wants to include us as an artform in whatever citywide arts event comes our way...why would we turn our nose to it. Fear? Jealousy?
Are we too good and too popular now for a few more audience members and/or students who might think twice about what we do.

Anyone who came out and posted that this isn't worth our time...shame on you haters.
It's not about being seen as legitimate. It's about being active participants in a performing arts community.

We likely will not be asked back next year beacuse we couldn't find one person among us to figure in enough time to put something together. Me included.

We are dicks.

Right on, Dave.

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » October 17th, 2007, 1:05 pm

Who said this isn't worth our time? Who doesn't want to be (and isn't already) actively involved in the arts community in Austin?

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » October 17th, 2007, 1:21 pm

Dave wrote:Kareem, I wish you had said that you were abandoning this project as loudly as you had said you were spearheading it.

Whoa whoa. Hold on a second. All I said I was going to do was contact ACoT about getting us on the ballot next year. I did that. And then I said this

I've already lost interest in this, so it's the last time I'll think about it.

On the other hand, if we need a scapegoat, I'm fine with that.

shando · Post by **shando** » October 17th, 2007, 1:24 pm

kbadr wrote:
Dave wrote:Kareem, I wish you had said that you were abandoning this project as loudly as you had said you were spearheading it.
Whoa whoa. Hold on a second. All I said I was going to do was contact ACoT about getting us on the ballot next year. I did that. And then I said this
I've already lost interest in this, so it's the last time I'll think about it.
On the other hand, if we need a scapegoat, I'm fine with that.

You're not my scapegoat, man. My right on was to Dave's larger point about the nature of our relationship with the larger performing arts community.

Roy Janik · Post by **Roy Janik** » October 17th, 2007, 1:28 pm

Wait, is it too late? I thought that Andy or someone was the official contact. I didn't know we were looking for someone to spearhead anything.

I'll be happy to put up ballot boxes or make an online voting thing or whatever. I just thought it was already being taken care of, and that this discussion was just to debate about getting on the real ballot next year.

ratliff · Post by **ratliff** » October 17th, 2007, 1:34 pm

mcnichol wrote:Who said this isn't worth our time? Who doesn't want to be (and isn't already) actively involved in the art community in Austin?

I don't know that anybody said outright that it's not worth our time. But apparently the fact that we were asked to determine the award winners within our community was seen as an insult. As Shannon mentions, this makes perfect sense to me for logistical reasons, but I guess it didn't to anyone else.

Jesus Christ, people. We lump games and narrative and scenework together and call them all improv, and we advertise it by screaming "COMEDY COMEDY COMEDY" at the top of our lungs, and then we get upset when people don't think of it as legitimate theater?

If you want to be regarded as theater, then REPRESENT YOURSELF THAT WAY. And then watch the ticket sales dwindle to nothing. Friday night I went to see one of the city's best actresses in a modern classic, and the tiny theater wasn't even half full. But it was by god legitimate.

On the other hand, if you want to put asses in seats and do work in front of enthusiastic audiences, keep advertising what we do as comedy. But maybe don't get your panties in a wad when someone actually takes you at your word and views what you do as comedy, for the superficial reason that "comedy" appears in every description of what you do and "theater" is only ever used to describe where you do it.

We sell ourselves as comedy. The Payne awards looked past that to acknowledge that we're part of the theater community. That wasn't good enough for us. End of story.

Roy Janik · Post by **Roy Janik** » October 17th, 2007, 1:34 pm

Looking here:

http://www.acotonline.org/Pages/Programs.html

It looks like the award is on October 21st. Since our voting process is totally independent, we could still easily have Bob A. set up an online ballot, and I could get the word out via the email list I send schedules to.

I just need someone who's in the know to tell us whether it's too late or not.

ratliff · Post by **ratliff** » October 17th, 2007, 1:47 pm

shando wrote:And since there aren't that many people in the wider community (yet!) who see multiple groups multiple times they're not as informed as are those of us who perform improv. It's much easier for a voter to say "I saw Play A and Play B--I liked Play A's production better."

And ACoT voters don't even necessarily see all the productions on the ballot. They're asked to vote only for those they've seen, but it's not like they're all hustling around town to go see every play that might be nominated.

So by all means, make them vote on Best Improv Group. And you know who'll win? ColdTowne or Pgraph. Because they play every single week at the same time, and are therefore the most likely to get seen by people who are only going to see one improv show. (Now that I think about it, Pgraph would have the edge, because they play at eight.)

I have no problem with that. But if you think that by making ACoT voters responsible for voting on improv, you're going to get all of them out to see every troupe and then make an informed decison, you've got another think coming. They don't do that for plays; why would they do it for improv?