Geez, Johnstone sure is a grumpy guru.

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » July 20th, 2007, 2:58 pm

Jastroch wrote:
HerrHerr wrote:"Check out my new Pat Benatar album."
"That's a toaster, not an album."
I would classify that as an outright denial. A block, as people define it, is more

"Let's go to the store."
"Naw, I don't feel like doing that."

Depending on the situation, that could be the best possible "yes and" one could do. I don't think the words alone can determine whether it's a denial or an acceptance of an idea -- the scene is much bigger than that.

Suggestions: they aren't necessary, but I always take one. I do not think they need to be used literally and I think using them literally is limiting for the players and the audience. I don't believe in obscurity for obscurity's sake, but I believe in looking at all facets of a suggestion and using that. "Hair. We'll take the suggestion of Hair." Sure, one facet may be a literal interpretation of the suggestion ("Wow, I like yr hair mom.") but look at what hair represents, culturally, socially, personally, etc. A scene on conservatism vs liberalism, a scene commenting on late 60's hippie culture (and disillusionment). A Sampson-esque scene on hair = male power. A scene with a couple that can't stop having sex enough to really get to know each other. My slow loss of hair might represent my reluctance to aging, so maybe a scene about that. Shows that take the suggestion literally and only literally bore me to tears, as a player or audience member.

I'm being a cranky contrarian. Fuck y'all.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » July 20th, 2007, 3:02 pm

I hate to say it, but I agree with BOB.

York99 · Post by **York99** » July 20th, 2007, 3:08 pm

Jastroch wrote:I hate to say it, but I agree with BOB.

Is BOB ever wrong?

I mean that both literally and figuratively?

HerrHerr · Post by **HerrHerr** » July 20th, 2007, 3:11 pm

mcnichol wrote:
Jastroch wrote:
HerrHerr wrote:"Check out my new Pat Benatar album."
"That's a toaster, not an album."
I would classify that as an outright denial. A block, as people define it, is more

"Let's go to the store."
"Naw, I don't feel like doing that."
Depending on the situation, that could be the best possible "yes and" one could do. I don't think the words alone can determine whether it's a denial or an acceptance of an idea -- the scene is much bigger than that.

Yeah, you could have a scene where someone is confused about whether something is an album or a toaster. Words alone don't paint the picture. The picture I was imagining was someone playing out of fear and denying for the laugh, but yay, I'd love to see a scene played "real" with the aforementioned set-up. I know you could do it, crankster!

ChrisTrew.Com · Post by **ChrisTrew.Com** » July 20th, 2007, 4:18 pm

Joe Canale at IO (and current Second City mainstager) told me that "suggestions are for suckers" and I really really like that.

I'm not going to explain why, though.

Post by **bradisntclever** » July 20th, 2007, 4:30 pm

ChrisTrew.Com wrote:Joe Canale at IO (and current Second City mainstager) told me that "suggestions are for suckers" and I really really like that.

I'm not going to explain why, though.

I suggest that you do explain why, though.

Milquetoast · Post by **Milquetoast** » July 20th, 2007, 4:38 pm

I'm personally not concerned that an improv guru doesn't like watching improv. I remember that back in the day, after Del Close died, I was on an improv board and they were telling stories about him. I'll paraphrase:

In one a guy remembers being on stage and doing a scene that was going really well, but then Del just got up and left. Turns out he went to the bathroom, and that really threw off the players and the scene kind of fell apart. Del comes back and asked what happened and they explain. He says 'It was a really solid scene. I had just seen it before.'

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » July 20th, 2007, 4:42 pm

Did Del Close watch shows in his later years? Keith watches tons of improv in the workshops he teaches, and he'll direct Micetros in San Francisco, but getting him to come watch your show is unlikely.

arclight · Post by **arclight** » July 20th, 2007, 4:46 pm

Suggestions are gimmicks. The human brain is noisy enough that you always have some idea rattling around up there and if you're using your senses and paying attention, you can find a kernel to start the scene.

I like to think of the suggestion as a quarter and the show as a vending machine with the players pushing the buttons, pulling the levers, or tipping the machine over. The audience should care more about the treat than the quarter. As long as treats come out, who cares if there was a quarter?

Milquetoast · Post by **Milquetoast** » July 20th, 2007, 4:51 pm

Oh, to clarify, that story was in a class.

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » July 20th, 2007, 4:52 pm

In the Hideout classes we teach that a block is anything that fails to move the scene forward. It comes in many forms:

Blocking
Canceling
Negotiating
Hedging
Wimping
Gossiping
Agreed Upon Activities/Transaction/Teaching Scenes
Being Negative
Sidetracking
Gagging
Looping
Joining
Lowering the Stakes

Just to reiterate. The above terms are things that tend to kill scenes and stories more often than other behaviors. They are not always bad all the time.

Asaf · Post by **Asaf** » July 20th, 2007, 5:58 pm

1. I don't get a suggestion to prove to the audience that it is improvised. I don't have any control really over proving that. People will still think it is scripted. It was 8 years before my mom stopped suggesting bits for my show.

2. When I get onstage I sometimes have so many ideas of what to do that getting a suggestion helps me silence all the voices except for a couple and then it is easier to choose. Or I go up and have nothing, then the suggestion gives me a couple of voices to choose from.

3. There is no such thing as a block. Realities are complicated things and not so fragile that one negative twist can suddenly break it.
Imp 1: Check out my new Pat Benatar album.
Imp 2: That's a toaster, not an album.
Imp 1: It has all my favorite hits, Heartbreaker, Invincible,...
Imp 2: No seriously, man, you are going to hurt yourself.
Imp 1: I think I am going to host a Pat Benatar dance party.
Imp 2: Dude, you are worrying me. Would you at least step out of the tub with the toaster.

My thought is that when you have a game like Actor's Nightmare where everything that the other person is going to be outside your reality, then you should be able to make something out of anything.

4. I also don't believe in Trust or Group Mind. I think people put faith in Group Mind like they do in God and it gets easily misguided.

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » July 21st, 2007, 12:14 am

wow. i'm a little shocked to hear that some of the things that i hold so dear and important to making improv sweet are being discarded or ignored. everybody gets to their goals in different ways, obviously, but some of these concepts are the basic building blocks of the artform itself.

here i am confounded.

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » July 21st, 2007, 2:02 am

Asaf wrote:I also don't believe in Trust or Group Mind. I think people put faith in Group Mind like they do in God and it gets easily misguided.

Asaf's just prematurely vying for grumpy guru status.

Asaf · Post by **Asaf** » July 21st, 2007, 2:36 am

beardedlamb wrote:wow. i'm a little shocked to hear that some of the things that i hold so dear and important to making improv sweet are being discarded or ignored. everybody gets to their goals in different ways, obviously, but some of these concepts are the basic building blocks of the artform itself.

here i am confounded.

And I am also open to others getting there that way. I am not the kind to force my philosophies down their throats. I feel that is unimprovisery as a behavior. I would love to discuss it with you sometimes, Lamb.