matt besser quote

[Roy Janik]

I can't disagree with that second quote -- though I'm not sure if quoting him implies that you or anyone else does disagree. Don't we all strive to make every scene as funny as possible? Should we be satisfied with failure?

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about the quote, which is why I didn't really post my opinion on it. While I agree that we should strive to make every scene as funny as possible, I don't agree that we should treat improv as "just coming up with a sketch in the moment". I think to do that takes away from the strengths improv has.

Part of what I like about improv is the discovery, and the playfulness... the give and take between the performers... the masterful creation of relationships and details out of the seed of the initial scene.

Yes, I think that the content of the scene should be as polished as possible, and that things like screwing up names and forgetting details should be done away with. But I also think that if you're trying to make improv into "just another sketch show", you are going to do away with giving characters a chance to breathe, and to discover their world as they're creating it.

[York99]

You want to do stuff as funny as a written sketch. And if it’s not, it’s not worthy.

This is the arguement that happened way back when in the history of improv. Second City went the way of "improv is a tool to generate material only" and Del et al believed that improv could stand on its own and yadda yadda yadda, so was born the Improv Olympic.

Funny how we're having this discussion now in a slightly different context and funny that Besser, a Del Close "disciple", is saying that the obvious improv aspect of an improv show is not suitable for TV.

History repeats itslef... and itself.

[mcnichol]

I can't disagree with anything you just said either, Roy.

I've seen Matt perform only a handful of times, and he (and UCB generally) play very fast. It's part of their style -- the focus on the game and whatnot -- so I'm not surprised that he might see it that way. But he's just one guy. If you talked to other people (David Pasquesi for example -- read that interview), they would have completely different takes on this stuff.

I love that there's all different kinds of improv, that everyone has strong feelings about what works and what doesn't, and that we're all talking about this stuff here.

[Roy Janik]

Scene change/morph and being forced to suddenly justify a position is fascinating to watch and can get a good laugh at the quality of the justification.

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking about... that there are laughs and reactions in improv shows directly related to the fact that it's improv that aren't due to screwups and failure and sweating... but rather the opposite. The audience delights in seeing us commit to our characters/relationships/stories, and are further delighted when we lock into the group mind and find the game, resolve the plot, or have real, honest, reactions... The audience's knowledge that we're improvising heightens their experience and their appreciation. Sure, the scenes would be funny anyways, or the stories compelling, if they were scripted, but the experience is elevated beyond what it would be otherwise because of the immediacy.

If you talked to other people (David Pasquesi for example -- read that interview), they would have completely different takes on this stuff.

Yeah, I'm not resenting anyone, or calling bullshit. I know Matt Besser's very talented. That's what I love about these interviews... they're making me think and figure out what I like about and in improv.

Also, I should do some work.

[York99]

Scene change/morph and being forced to suddenly justify a position is fascinating to watch and can get a good laugh at the quality of the justification.

Yeah, this is what I've been thinking about... that there are laughs and reactions in improv shows directly related to the fact that it's improv that aren't due to screwups and failure and sweating... but rather the opposite. The audience delights in seeing us commit to our characters/relationships/stories, and are further delighted when we lock into the group mind and find the game, resolve the plot, or have real, honest, reactions...

I agree very much, but not across the board. For example, one thing I really love is watching the improvisers have a good time on stage. Another thing I love is being surprised in improv (in all comedy, in fact). If a troupe nails all the points that Roy just made, but they weren't having fun and/or they didn't surprise me in any way with the way that they respolved the plot, etc. then I might not enjoy the show.

Take the 3 For All and Double Feature shows at OoB. There is no question that they committed to characters/relationships/stories. They locked into the group mind, found the games, resolved the plots, had real, honest reactions, etc. etc. etc. While the part of me that appreciates impeccable improv enjoyed those shows, the part of me that likes to have a good time and laugh at an improv show thought they were as boring as church. The plots wrapped up exactly as I expected and there were no surprises throughout. If these were scripted plays, they would not be good. Their virtue rested in the fact that they were improvised.

Take my words with these grains of salt:
-I am not very much into "legitimate theatre"
-They were not attempting a comedy show

[Milquetoast]

That's a totally excellent point. Watching performers have fun is almost better than seeing what the joke is. I remember always laughing really hard when Horatio Sanz would show up on the Jimmy Fallon/Tina Fey Weekend Update, because he and Jimmy Fallon would just crack each other up. I don't remember any of the jokes...but I guess that was the point. Really fun stuff!

I've seen many many similar moments in the live shows I've seen here. In fact, some of my favorite performers seem to be smiling or grinning most of the time they're on stage.

[York99]

Watching performers have fun is almost better than seeing what the joke is. I remember always laughing really hard when Horatio Sanz would show up on the Jimmy Fallon/Tina Fey Weekend Update, because he and Jimmy Fallon would just crack each other up.

I have to say that I really hate Horatio Sanz and Jimmy Fallon as performers on SNL for that exact reason. Having fun is one thing. Having fun at the expense of the scene and/or corpsing so much that it's no longer funny to viewers is another thing.

Difference in taste here, though, I suppose. Lots of people loved that.

[shando]

I think this goes back to something Jastroch said about causality with regards to rules and bad scenes. I think the opposite can apply as well. Being playful and having a good time onstage are certainly helpful, but they don't guarantee anything any more than follwing 'rules' does.

[York99]

I think this goes back to something Jastroch said about causality with regards to rules and bad scenes. I think the opposite can apply as well. Being playful and having a good time onstage are certainly helpful, but they don't guarantee anything any more than follwing 'rules' does.

Very true. However, consider the converse: Not being playful and not having a good time on stage almost guarantees that the show will not be enjoyable IMHO. Got that H Ratliff?

[kbadr]

I hate to say this...but I agree with Justin.

Playfulness cannot be overestimated. It loosens you up and allows you to explore new ideas and techniques, while letting the audience know that you are in total control. They pick up on that vibe.

Of course, it's easy to become too self-indulgently playful, and start taking the piss, at the expense of scene work. That bothers me, too.

[Milquetoast]

Attitude is everything!

[shando]

Of course, it's easy to become too self-indulgently playful, and start taking the piss, at the expense of scene work. That bothers me, too.

This is what I'm getting at. Yes, it's hard to have a good show without being playful, but the opposite of that syllogism doesn't neccessarily hold water. I've seen some shows recently and been in one where the performers where having a waaaaay better time than the audience. It's that 'playfulness' that pisses me off, because it's not playfullness, it's indulgent fuckery.

That Nachmanov (whatver the hell the name is) book is really good on this stuff. When I read it I thought it was kind of too New Agey for me, but it's stuck around in my head. Play is a deep and pleasurable form of discipline and responsibility.

[York99]

I hate to say this...but I agree with Justin.

Ahhh, my new quoty thing at the bottom of my posts.

[York99]

I've seen some shows recently and been in one where the performers where having a waaaaay better time than the audience. It's that 'playfulness' that pisses me off, because it's not playfullness, it's indulgent fuckery.

I've been there, too, a lot and there's definitely a point where the line is crossed. The problem is that when you get too close to that line and finally cross it, getting back in the scene/show is nearly impossible.

As my father always says, "Moderation is the key to my success."

[kaci_beeler]

I keep thinking about Matt Besser almost purposely refusing to talk about improv when he came to town to do his "one-man show", which was kind of like an extended stand-up routine.

In the question and answer period Dave Buckman asked, "When is there going to be a UCB Austin?"
and Matt answers, "uh....This place right here is pretty cool that you guys have got!"
We were at the Alamo Drafthouse by Lakeline Mall.
I wanted to say, "This place is a fucking movie theater, jackass!"

And since then I harbor a sort of resentment for the guy.

I don't get it. You're mad because he didn't know what kind of venue he was playing? Or because he was dismissive with Dave?

Yeah right he didn't know where he was playing. There's a sign out front with movie titles, movie posters along the walls, there's no way when he was booking the gig that he didn't know that.
He was being dismissive of Dave with a silly little compliment which to me was an insult. If you're going to perform in a city, why don't you learn a little something about it? Plus, he sent messages to improv and sketch troupes' myspaces asking them to come to the show. He knew. He just didn't want to talk about it.