Improv Math

DollarBill · Post by **DollarBill** » May 16th, 2007, 4:36 pm

erikamay wrote: well, IMO, "IMO" sounds better than "IMHO".

IMO that is very funny. And In My HO is where your wiener can be for fifty bucks.

arthursimone wrote: I love the idea of ballerinas spending their early years learning to be precise and exact and then burning their pointe shoes to take up modern dance and blossoming like goddamn flowers

Also, IMO, that is something I agree with except for the use of the GD word which is so offensive for the pretty flowers.

shando · Post by **shando** » May 16th, 2007, 4:37 pm

Jastroch wrote: I think these things are training wheels that relearn us how to play, and the sooner we let go of them the better.

I would edit that to say, as soon as you've really internalized the aspect of true play you can let it go. But I think lots of people want to rush past real learning and dispense with what might still be helpful to them. I think people in all sorts of ways lie to themselves about how free they are of bad habits, myself included. Which is one reason a lot of people are saying they wouldn't urge Napier's book on beginners because they get permission to say fuck the rules without really understanding what they're saying fuck to.

And yes, totally, methods, guidelines, suggestions rather than rules.

DollarBill · Post by **DollarBill** » May 16th, 2007, 4:44 pm

I like the training wheels analogy. I like to put them back on every once in a while. I think it really helps. Like, when you first learn to ride you take em off for a bit. Then if you wanna learn to ride with no hands you could put em on again and try riding with no hands til you're comfortable taking them off again.

Or to put it so that musicians can understand: Practicing your scales can never hurt.

Plus I think what Shannon said about bad habits is pretty smart.

York99 · Post by **York99** » May 16th, 2007, 4:45 pm

shando wrote:I think people in all sorts of ways lie to themselves about how free they are of bad habits, myself included.

I never lie to myself about this. I recognize it as fact that I have many bad habits.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » May 16th, 2007, 5:16 pm

shando wrote: I would edit that to say, as soon as you've really internalized the aspect of true play you can let it go. But I think lots of people want to rush past real learning and dispense with what might still be helpful to them.

The sooner we're able to let go the better? That sounds better. However, my experience, and what I've noticed from some students, is that thinking about the rules and what mistakes I'm making was a far greater hurdle to overcome had I not had the fear of god instilled in me (or instilled it in myself) about screwing up or violating the rules. I.E. worrying about the rules puts you in your head makes you do bad scenes. At least for me.

I find that the sooner I'm not thinking about the rules and worrying about screwing up, the better I play. I understand that there are a lot of people who do not have as much trouble with this as I have had. Those people usually come from more of a performance background. I think it's my writing/editing background.

I'm night and day as a performer. I'm either playful as fuck and doing great scenework and not thinking about the rules, or the opposite of that. Which is why Napier speaks to me, though not literally.

shando · Post by **shando** » May 16th, 2007, 5:52 pm

Jastroch wrote:
shando wrote: I would edit that to say, as soon as you've really internalized the aspect of true play you can let it go. But I think lots of people want to rush past real learning and dispense with what might still be helpful to them.
The sooner we're able to let go the better? That sounds better. However, my experience, and what I've noticed from some students, is that thinking about the rules and what mistakes I'm making was a far greater hurdle to overcome had I not had the fear of god instilled in me (or instilled it in myself) about screwing up or violating the rules. I.E. worrying about the rules puts you in your head makes you do bad scenes. At least for me.

I find that the sooner I'm not thinking about the rules and worrying about screwing up, the better I play. I understand that there are a lot of people who do not have as much trouble with this as I have had. Those people usually come from more of a performance background. I think it's my writing/editing background.

I'm night and day as a performer. I'm either playful as fuck and doing great scenework and not thinking about the rules, or the opposite of that. Which is why Napier speaks to me, though not literally.

Yeah, I think that sounds better. And you're right, I've probably seen as many people get hung up on doing it 'right' as people who blithely don't want to learn.

andrea · Post by **andrea** » May 16th, 2007, 6:12 pm

i'm sad that this thread is no longer about math

York99 · Post by **York99** » May 16th, 2007, 6:23 pm

andrea wrote:i'm sad that this thread is no longer about math

Don't you get it, Andrea? It's all about math. Everything. You're still thinking about the rules of math. Stop thinking and just act on instinct.

Fractals.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » May 16th, 2007, 7:53 pm

shando wrote:
Yeah, I think that sounds better. And you're right, I've probably seen as many people get hung up on doing it 'right' as people who blithely don't want to learn.

Yeah, just to clarify*: I'm not advocating a lack of training by any means. I've seen a ton of people perform with no other skills than having watched Who's Line (Shannon, see: The Perfect Storm.**) and having a whim one day over their Frosted Flakes.

I am advocating getting as much training as possible from as many schools of thoughts as possible. Eventually, you'll find something that works for you or speaks to you creatively.

But no matter who or what you've studied, at some point I think the truly great improvisors learn the rules and then forget them. In the Bruce Lee sense (see: the movie Dragon or the Tao of Jeet Kun Do***).

* Not that I thought anyone was misinterpreting me.

** Hint: I talk about it all the time.

*** Seriously.

Bruce Lee has a lot to say about improv.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » May 16th, 2007, 7:54 pm

andrea wrote:i'm sad that this thread is no longer about math

Maybe creativity and inspiration is just math so complicated that it's nearly impossible to express in equation form.

shando · Post by **shando** » May 16th, 2007, 7:58 pm

Jastroch wrote:I've seen a ton of people perform with no other skills than having watched Who's Line (Shannon, see: The Perfect Storm.**)

--snip--

** Hint: I talk about it all the time.

Me no getty.

TexasImprovMassacre · Post by **TexasImprovMassacre** » May 16th, 2007, 8:18 pm

shando wrote:
TexasImprovMassacre wrote:...so far instead of rules I just focus on doing exaggerated impressions of shannon mccormick at different points in his life.
What am I doing right now?

What am I doing right, NOW!?

shando · Post by **shando** » May 19th, 2007, 10:55 am

TexasImprovMassacre wrote:What am I doing right, NOW!?

This:

http://store.mcsweeneys.net/index.cfm/f ... umbers.cfm

York99 · Post by **York99** » May 19th, 2007, 5:24 pm

shando wrote:
TexasImprovMassacre wrote:What am I doing right, NOW!?
This:

http://store.mcsweeneys.net/index.cfm/f ... umbers.cfm

"As we all know, true creativity comes from simple formulas and the memorization of data."

Comedy By The Numbers is the brainchild of Prof. Eric Hoffman (Mr. Show) & Dr. Gary Rudoren (Annoyance Theatre)

WHAT THE F....?!

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » July 7th, 2010, 3:21 pm

Bump! Take Miles's workshop. It's worth the 40, if for no other reason than to bring up this old thread again.