Pro-Life and Pro-Bomb

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » April 26th, 2007, 1:21 pm

You know, I don't find myself having an extremely strong opinion about abortion (which probably puts me in the "pro choice" camp), but this is some scary shit.

nadine · Post by **nadine** » April 26th, 2007, 1:47 pm

takeaway from that: it's not ok to kill babies, but it's ok to kill sinners.

mpbrockman · Post by **mpbrockman** » April 26th, 2007, 2:17 pm

nadine wrote:takeaway from that: it's not ok to kill babies, but it's ok to kill sinners.

How about bomb-planters?

Wesley · Post by **Wesley** » April 26th, 2007, 2:20 pm

I think the thinking is that the sinners had a choice to be sinners, the baby's had none.

This was one of the best episodes of Law And Order. Someone bombed an abortion clinic to kill the sinners who were aborting their fetuses, but Jack McCoy got them to admit on the stand that by killing the sinning mother, they also killed the innocent baby they were trying to protect (abortion by bomb instead of doctor) and they broke down and were found guilty.

Go get 'em Jack!

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » April 26th, 2007, 2:53 pm

I read an interesting pro-choice ethics paper in college once.

The gist (jist?) of it was this: If a woman woke up one morning and the world's greatest violinist had been surgically attached to her body in such a way that to remove the violinist would kill him (her/it) and that the woman was now obligated to remain attached to said violinist forever, no one would fault her for detaching herself from said violinist.

Just saying.

For my own part, I deny the existence of the soul or that, indeed, the fetus is living in any scientific sense of the word, making my pro choice stance a lot easier. If I thought that every fertilized egg was magically inhabited by an incoporial entity with free will, it would be a harder leap for me. That violinist logic puzzle helped me put it together in my brain.

Of course, it's always hilarious when pro life people kill. Say what you will about the Catholic Church, at least they have a coherent world view. No abortion, no death penalty, no war, no killing. Bam. What gets me are these fuckers who won't let a woman terminate a pregnancy but are first in line to kill the retarded or drop some bombs on the brown people of the Earth.

I once attended an anti abortion conference in New Orleans to spy for Planned Parenthood. I shaved my sideburns, cut my hair and wore my nicest Justin York (BURN!) outfit. Then the pro-life punked out christian rock youth wouldn't talk to me cause I looked like a dork. Everything's the same everywhere. Fashion whores of Babylon.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » April 26th, 2007, 2:57 pm

Note: execute retards is funnier than kill the retarded.

Roy Janik · Post by **Roy Janik** » April 26th, 2007, 3:03 pm

Jastroch wrote:The gist (jist?) of it was this: If a woman woke up one morning and the world's greatest violinist had been surgically attached to her body in such a way that to remove the violinist would kill him (her/it) and that the woman was now obligated to remain attached to said violinist forever, no one would fault her for detaching herself from said violinist.

I would fault her, just a little bit.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » April 26th, 2007, 3:06 pm

I don't understand the violinist puzzle.

For the analogy to work, doesn't a baby has to be permanently attached to the mother. Even if you want to use motherhood as an emotional attachment that's just as strong as a physical one, the mother can still put the unwanted child up for adoption, can't she? I must be misunderstanding the puzzle. (or I've reinforced my belief that either analogies don't work well for arguing any point, or my brain splits hairs too much for analogies to work on me, specifically)

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » April 26th, 2007, 3:08 pm

I fault the violinist for being a victim.

I think the point is that, while it wouldn't be an easy decision, it wouldn't be an absolute wrong. A moral decision doesn't always involve self sacrifice. Ethical does not equal altruistic.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » April 26th, 2007, 3:10 pm

kbadr wrote:I don't understand the violinist puzzle.

For the analogy to work, doesn't a baby has to be permanently attached to the mother. Even if you want to use motherhood as an emotional attachment that's just as strong as a physical one, the mother can still put the unwanted child up for adoption, can't she? I must be misunderstanding the puzzle. (or I've reinforced my belief that either analogies don't work well for arguing any point, or my brain splits hairs too much for analogies to work on me, specifically)

That's fair. I read this like, eight years ago or more. I think I may be missing the point your addressing in my recollection. I know it was addressed, though I forget how.

The point is: bomb throwers are the worst kind of disgusting.

Wesley · Post by **Wesley** » April 26th, 2007, 3:36 pm

Jastroch wrote:The gist (jist?) of it was this: If a woman woke up one morning and the world's greatest violinist had been surgically attached to her body in such a way that to remove the violinist would kill him (her/it) and that the woman was now obligated to remain attached to said violinist forever, no one would fault her for detaching herself from said violinist.

What color is the violinist?

nadine · Post by **nadine** » April 26th, 2007, 4:11 pm

Wesley wrote:I think the thinking is that the sinners had a choice to be sinners, the baby's had none.

original sin, dude.

Wesley wrote: This was one of the best episodes of Law And Order. Someone bombed an abortion clinic to kill the sinners who were aborting their fetuses, but Jack McCoy got them to admit on the stand that by killing the sinning mother, they also killed the innocent baby they were trying to protect (abortion by bomb instead of doctor) and they broke down and were found guilty.

Go get 'em Jack!

Oh my goodness. I totally saw this episode when I was a kid in a third world country. It was awesome. I remember wanting to be that lawyer.

York99 · Post by **York99** » April 26th, 2007, 4:17 pm

Kill all babies and make heaven adorable.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » April 26th, 2007, 4:22 pm

nadine wrote:
Wesley wrote:I think the thinking is that the sinners had a choice to be sinners, the baby's had none.
original sin, dude.

I'm not totally sure about this, but I thought churches tend to use some water and a ceremony, rather than balls of fire, to get rid of that

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » April 26th, 2007, 4:24 pm

Yeah, there's something about forgiveness in there... or something.