What a fucking asshole

[kbadr]

There is the forced acceptance of spanish speaking classes and the importing of teachers from Mexico to teach classes in Texas schools, while there is such a terrible problem with illegal immigration, gangs, and schoolyard violence in those same schools. (Yes, in my twisted brain, it all connects.)

Last I read, Austin schools are 57.05% hispanic. A white child is a minority in AISD.

And there's usually a shortage of teachers in public schools. Having to import teachers from anywhere is just a function of needing more teachers.

This is not to say that I don't think that people who move here should learn English, however. (I'd learn Italian if I moved to Italy.) That is indeed a separate, nasty topic.

[Jastroch]

Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, legally speaking, there's no official language in the United States of America.

Illegal immigration is a problem, sure. But, I hate to say it, a lot of this is just short hand for racism. There was a very similar paranoia over Irish, then Italian and Eastern European Immigration. 80 years later, they've initigrated pertty well into our society. Or do you disaprove of Italians and Irishmen too?

[kbadr]

Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, legally speaking, there's no official language in the United States of America.

This is true. I would argue that, just from a national identity perspective, not having a national language was a poor choice.

No wait, I seem to remember an early colonial vote of English vs German, and English won. Maybe that was pre-Revolution, though.

Nope, that's an urban legend.

Pretty interesting stuff.
Though it does bring up the interesting point that English has become the world language, due in no small part to the dominance/influence of the United States. It's not a stretch to say that English is the de facto language of the United States.

The more I think about this, the stranger it is. We're a nation without a language of our own. How odd. There is such a strong link in my mind between a language and it's country of origin (I hear "French", I think "France"; I hear "Italian", I think "Italy"; I hear "Welsh", I think "Too many consonants"), but the US doesn't have that all.

[York99]

I hear "French", I think "Acadiana". I hear "Italian", I think "lasagne." I hear racism, I think "home."

[Jules]

I'm actually all for bilingual education as I think Spanish will be the dominant secondary language (is already) in the US. Hell, we should all probably learn Russian and Chinese as well.
And being an agnostic with a love for all kinds of cultural holidays, I enjoy it when schools acknowledge all manner of social and cultural rituals (though none should be forced). I don't think there is a war on Christmas.
My issue with the school districts is the whole TAKS thing. Kids are learning to take tests, not to learn.
I'd love to get Owen into a private Montesorri esque type school. He's crazy smart and bored mostly.
I don't have cable or nice cars. If we were living on the kind of salaries you mentioned earlier? I'd be spending WAY more time at home.
When I hear French, I think Fries!

[Pendark]

Seriously?
We got major Jewish holidays off in NY.
Every school year has a Christmas and Easter break.
The school year, in part, caters to Christianity.

How is being religion-neutral (through not singing Christmas songs to the entire class) comparable to allowing a Muslim student to leave class to privately practice their religion? And how can you claim both that private prayer is "under siege", and that there exists a bias that allows Muslim students to pray privately. I'm confused by what exactly you're opposed to.

Of course, I do agree that arguing over the phrase "under god" seems a bit much. I grew up agnostic, at best, and the phrase didn't make me feel like anything was being thrust upon me. There are countless reminders in our society that you're an outsider if you're not Christian, let alone an atheist.

But not for Muslims. Muslim students have been given time to attend their faith during the public school hours. They have also been given a place within the taxpayer funded school to do so. At the same time therehave been incidents of Christianstudents suspended for gathering to pray. Yes it is all a gray area with many questions. But it seems that there is a definite need to review the meaning of "freedom of religion".

What I am opposed to is the idea that one kind of religion may be allowed and allowances made, while another is not. Freedom OF religion is not freedom FROM religion. And the First Amendment is not a one-sided proposition.

[Pendark]

Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, legally speaking, there's no official language in the United States of America.

Illegal immigration is a problem, sure. But, I hate to say it, a lot of this is just short hand for racism. There was a very similar paranoia over Irish, then Italian and Eastern European Immigration. 80 years later, they've initigrated pertty well into our society. Or do you disaprove of Italians and Irishmen too?

I disaprove of any person going into any country and expecting to reap the benifits of the system of that country, without going through the steps to ascimilate into the system of that country.

I disaprove of anyone going to any place and expecting to retain his citizenship in his native land while having his children educated, receiving welfare from, or refusing to pay taxes in said place.

I disaprove of anyone going to any place for the express purpose of working a job they will get paid for illegally and refuse to account for as acitizen of said place must.

The difference between the Irish, English, Italian, and even Puerto Rican imigrants is that they came legally, followed legal ascimilation procedures, chose to become part of the system, and chose to contribute to the country that supports them. (And by the way, my grandfather Imigrated here from England in 1952.) It is not about imigration....it is about legal.

[York99]

Also, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, legally speaking, there's no official language in the United States of America.

Illegal immigration is a problem, sure. But, I hate to say it, a lot of this is just short hand for racism. There was a very similar paranoia over Irish, then Italian and Eastern European Immigration. 80 years later, they've initigrated pertty well into our society. Or do you disaprove of Italians and Irishmen too?

I disaprove of any person going into any country and expecting to reap the benifits of the system of that country, without going through the steps to ascimilate into the system of that country.

I disaprove of anyone going to any place and expecting to retain his citizenship in his native land while having his children educated, receiving welfare from, or refusing to pay taxes in said place.

I disaprove of anyone going to any place for the express purpose of working a job they will get paid for illegally and refuse to account for as acitizen of said place must.

The difference between the Irish, English, Italian, and even Puerto Rican imigrants is that they came legally, followed legal ascimilation procedures, chose to become part of the system, and chose to contribute to the country that supports them. (And by the way, my grandfather Imigrated here from England in 1952.) It is not about imigration....it is about legal.

Like many other issues, it's very easy to get bogged down in principles and concepts and lose sight of the reality of the situation and the human aspect. I'm not a bleeding heart liberal. I am a realist, though.

Although technically criminals, these people immigrating illegally are not necessarily bad people. They are looking for a better life. Even risking life and limb and imprisonment through deserts and other tough terrain to get to a place where they're not wanted and do very crappy jobs with very crappy pay and to send much of that crappy pay to relatives is better than staying where they are. Logic: they must live in a terrible situation. Backed up against that wall, I would do it. Wouldn't you? Or would you stay in the hopeless situation only to have your family suffer just so you don't break a law? They live in desperate situations.

Result: it's a struggle to keep people out who have essentially nothing to lose. Reality: change strategy. Think drug war. It hasn't worked. Drug users are winning. Stop the desire.

Our policy on immigration should not be bigger walls on the Mexican border. It should be bigger hearts. [That sounded so gay I had to say it.] It should be helping to make Mexico a better place so that they don't have a desire to come here.

Assimilation is good if we can enforce it somehow. I don't think that's really an option at this point. It's a great CONCEPT, though. So is communism.

Like it or not, this is a problem. A big one. And it's our problem. Like it or not. A good solution doesn't just solve a problem; it addresses the cause of the problem.

Was that at all what this thread was about? I've completely forgotten at this point and my soap box is too high to read the screen.

[Jessica]

So I'd just like to say that many people feel an strong biological urge to have at least one child. (It is fundamental to our survival for the last billion years.) Once these children are had - even if not specifically planned - the vast, vast majority of people do their best to be good parents. That is sometimes not good enough, but it really isn't from lack of trying. I used to work foster care, and those bio parents were a freaking mess, but they were actually trying - every single one I met loved their kids and wanted the best for them.

I do arrange my schedule so my kids don't have to be in care more then an a few hours a week. And I home school partially because I can't stand the school system. But I feel that "mommy" wars don't help any of us. What we all need is understanding and support to do the most difficult job that I have ever encountered. (Public insurance/health care wouldn't hurt either.)

(I can't find an avatar I like!)

[DollarBill]

Not all public schools are bad. In fact, I'll bet that in most* situations, a public school is only as bad as a parent makes it. Probably the most important thing that is learned there is how to interact socially. It's really really important. Really REALLY important.

* Most. Means "not a sweeping generalization". Obviously some are very bad, just like private schools and people named Charlie.

[Jessica]

In school kids are taught how to interact socially in a completely artificial situation. It is very unlike most types of social and /or work life they are likely to encounter. My kids interact with many different kids on a regular basis, the difference is that they are not segregated into single age, large group situations. Sure there are some of these in the theater classes or camps they take. But they also have to deal with grown-ups, teens, and little kids on a pretty regular basis. And although some of their time is spent in the "sit down and be quiet" type of situation much of the time they are able to work together with other kids on projects, etc. Also, my kids have parents who are near enough to help out when childhood interactions go wrong. When the kids can't work it out themselves we can and do step in to work with the kids on how to negotiate. There are many good reasons to send a kid to public school, I just think socialization is better done in real life.

Also, I think the public schools in Austin are mostly really good, for what they are. Home school just works better for my kids.

[DollarBill]

I found the bull-shit I encountered in school to be exactly the same consistency of the bull-shit I encountered in college, the professional world, and in the rest of my life. I think homeschooling is fine to a certain point. I KNOW I'd be a better teacher than a lot of the ones I had, but I had a few who truly inspired me. I'd say variety of experience is another really important thing. I wouldn't be where I am today without my teachers (the good and the bad). It's obviously different for every single situation. I just think that in most cases, at a certain age, the hatchlings have to test the thermals for themselves.