What would make Austin a great place to learn improv?

[arclight]

Thoughts on classes:

Five is an arbitrary number; I'd rather we change the number and length of classes to fit a curriculum than the other way around.

Not everyone takes improv to learn to perform. However, for the people who do it's important to gracefully separate the stageworthy from the non-stageworthy before the first 'performance-level' class. Historically, the Heroes let people repeat Level 2 at half price; if they don't catch on by then maybe we're not reaching them and they need to take different classes - no harm, no foul.

The Hideout/Heroes are not the AIC. While it'd be great if the two groups could work together, my preference is that the AIC develop its own curriculum and cadre of instructors, and expect to operate independently of the Heroes. I see AIC instruction as a complement, not a competitor to the Heroes school, similar to taking classes at the State or the UT Informal program.

I remembered from the Kozlowski book (The Art of Chicago Improv) that the Annoyance doesn't number their courses, they name them after animals to avoid an appearance of hierarchy. I like that idea; it allows us to set prerequisites for classes but doesn't set people on a completely linear path.

I don't want AIC (or anyone) to eventually be in a position to lock people out of performance because they haven't 'paid their dues' by going through the pipeline and tithing the Powers That Be. For that reason I'm generally opposed to 'requiring' more classes before performance. I believe in continuing education and that learning a wide variety of formats, styles, and theories from a variety of instructors makes for stronger players, but I also believe that the stage is often the best teacher. Our mission is to promote the art, not milk the noobs with a pay-to-play scam. That's what LA is for.

So, starting from a blank slate, what would make Austin a great place to learn improv?

[kbadr]

Honestly, Bob, I think it already is.

I started with the classes, having zero stage experience. A few weeks into level 2, we were short on players for Maestro, so Andy said "hey...you guys wanna play tonight?" and we did.

Being stricter about who's "performance worthy" might not even be necessary. The classes tended to weed out the people who weren't serious about it, and didn't have any intention of performing.

I haven't taken the classes in 6 or 8 months, but they definitely served their purpose. They made me more playful, taught me to fail (too well, some might argue) and made me realize that this is something I'd like to pursue further.

5 is an arbitrary number. What are the actual class descriptions for the current level 2 and 3 classes? Maybe hammering out the goals of those 2 classes a little further will help to make clear what other classes should follow.

Though, upon re-reading your post, maybe I misunderstood. You seem to be proposing that AIC has its own set of classes and instructors. I'm not sure that I agree with that. I haven't given this an incredible amount of thought, but it seems to me that AIC is for improvisers -- people who are performing, or have performed. People who are just taking classes may not even consider themselves "improvisers", nor may they have any aspirations to be an improviser. So in my mind it's almost like people join AIC when they've gone through classes, performed, and consider themselves an improviser and have a vested interest in the community.

I had more points to make, but my brain's foggy and I'm starting to lose focus. I'll chime in if someone adds some new thoughts to the thread.

[Evilpandabear]

The Hideout/Heroes are not the AIC. While it'd be great if the two groups could work together, my preference is that the AIC develop its own curriculum and cadre of instructors, and expect to operate independently of the Heroes. I see AIC instruction as a complement, not a competitor to the Heroes school...

The Hideout makes a lot of its money from classes, so AIC teaching classes would be taking income from the Hideout. So no matter how you look at it, AIC would be competing with the Heroes. The Hideout barely gets by as it is, and we need to support it as much as possible. Without the Hideout the AIC and the entire improv community would suffer a tremendous blow, one we really can't afford, especially if we want to do all things we keep talking about doing.

[arclight]

A couple quick points, Jay:

1. The Heroes classes teach Johnstonian improv, period. They have never had any inclination or interest in teaching other forms or theories.
2. There are already a number of places to learn improv in Austin besides the Heroes. Some instructors teach both at the Hideout and elsewhere - should the AIC tell them to stop because they might be diverting students and money from the Hideout?
3. Analogously, should the AIC be forbidden from putting on a show at the same time as Maestro or promoting shows at other venues? What's the limit?

501(c)(3)-wise, the IRS couldn't give two shits if the AIC has an educational mission or not; what they really care about is that we're not set up to drive cash to a for-profit entity. While it's perfectly reasonable to have a relationship with the Hideout, rent space, etc., it's not acceptable for the AIC to preferentially support the for-profit Heroes' school. Besides, it's a betrayal of our educational mission to intentionally not teach classes for whatever reason.

There are many ways for the AIC and the Hideout to work together for their mutual benefit; let's try to think some up.

[beardedlamb]

I remembered from the Kozlowski book (The Art of Chicago Improv) that the Annoyance doesn't number their courses, they name them after animals to avoid an appearance of hierarchy.

As long as i've known about them, they've been numbered 1-5. annoyance classes
and what's wrong with hierarchy in some places. very few people agree with a pay to play model, i certainly don't, but a little hierarchy is inevitable and necessary for leaders and spokesmen for the community to emerge. in annoyance, most people take the classes just so they can have mick (he wrote a book!!!) at the end of their training. i don't think there's anything wrong with having that light at the end of the tunnel mentality for classes.

Not everyone takes improv to learn to perform.

at bats in san francisco, they have a non-performer track and a performer track for the week long summer school. this didn't make sense to me back then, but now that i understand the power of improv, it makes perfect sense. i don't know that austin has the student base for this to work just yet and other institutions in austin might cover these issues. there's nothing wrong with being a school designed to turn out great performers.

I see AIC instruction as a complement, not a competitor to the Heroes school

this is impossible as we would be promoting and teaching the classes in the same space. it doesn't behoove either entitiy to split the class base.

in any class structure there's going to be students that don't really fit in. everyone has their own style and i think this may even cause people to form groups and rehearse on their own. people who are slow-learners or no-learners shouldn't necessarily be asked to leave the school. the initial style was that they wouldn't be asked to come perform with the heroes once level three was done.

and lastly, this is not our school. it's sean and andy's. we can sit here all afternoon and discuss how it should be run, but isn't that annoying for the guys who actually are running it and have built it up to where it makes cash for the theatre they also run? currently we're stuck. it's not our thing. (sad emoticon)

alright, not lastly;

The Heroes classes teach Johnstonian improv, period. They have never had any inclination or interest in teaching other forms or theories.

maybe this is changing. has it been stated recently. i think the community has enough leaders and thinkers to create its own school that is some kind of combination of the best of both worlds.

Analogously, should the AIC be forbidden from putting on a show at the same time as Maestro or promoting shows at other venues? What's the limit?

this is a tough question. i think the best solution is going to be for the aic and heroes to absorb into each other. currently there is this weird balance and split among the two that seems awkward to me. they don't compete with each other but both are growing fast in the small space of three nights a week. you can bet the public is confused or apathetic about this situation. this might also be the answer to the school issue that seems to be emerging. but, this is a very large issue that is not for the forums where you're not actually talking to a person. you're kind of talking to yourself on here, but anyway.

sorry to be bitchy but this is something i care a lot about as i plan on entering the teaching fold very soon with no intention of leaving for a long time.

smiles,
jeremy

[kbadr]

Analogously, should the AIC be forbidden from putting on a show at the same time as Maestro or promoting shows at other venues? What's the limit?

I don't think that anyone's suggested that this should be the case. In fact, there's going to be a non-Heroes Saturday night show that overlaps with Maestro in a bit. My only problem with that is that I'll have to make a decision between playing Maestro and watching the show, and that's an awesome problem for me to have.

Promoting shows at other venues should be happening, and I don't think doing more improv around town can do anything but help the cause in the long run.

[acrouch]

Let's all talk about this in person at the meeting on Sunday.

[beardedlamb]

see you there.

[beardedlamb]

that's a joke. i'll be in ohio.

right. (british)