Transitioning from shortform to longform

LuBu McJohnson · Post by **LuBu McJohnson** » March 6th, 2007, 9:06 pm

Ok, hypothetical situation:

Say I form a lil' side troupe to mess around with some longform stuff. I get about 4 guys who I have worked with for years and who are all moderate improv vets. The problem is that all the years of improv I have done with these gentlemen have all been for the sake of ComedySportz. Since I've worked with these guys for so long, we've got Improv basics and team chemistry down. BUT, longform is a good distance away from Comedysportz, as we are all aware.

Now I wanted to help TNA out and take a date or two from this scheduling period, which wouldn't give this lil' group a lot of time to prepare in terms of, you know, LEARNING formats or ensuring a smooth shortform-to-longform transition, so I'll just throw some questions out to the forum and see if I can get some advice.

1) "In a shortform scene you would typically do x, but in a longform scene you should probably do y." What are 'x' and 'y' to you?

2) Has anyone here had to make a transition from shortform to longform? Was there anything you realized about longform that made your longform better?

3) Are there any longform formats that might, I dunno, be eaiser for a ComedySportz group to adapt to?

So that's it. If we have a lot of fun doing this stuff then we might do some more with longform, maybe start looking for coaches or whatev to teach us cool longform shit, but as for right now I'm just gonna try using the nice, cheap forum.

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » March 6th, 2007, 9:42 pm

1) In a shortform scene you would typically go for the laugh, but in a longform scene you should probably commit to your character, strengthen your relationship and look for oportunities to be changed by your partner. Comedy comes from risk -- or success and failure in the face of risk. Risk in shortform comes from the games. Risk in longform comes from the vulnerability and sheer improbability of improvising theater, so you have to really try to play the hell out of the theater. If you go for the laugh too often or too soon in longform, you sacrifice your ability to hit funnier more powerful stuff overall. And the laughs will still happen, you just don't have to gag for them.

2) & 3) Ed 32 started with shortform, but with a definite eye on moving toward longform. We did a lot of transitional longforms like 5,4,3,2,1 (play 5 scenes, audience eliminates one storyline, play 4 scenes, audience eliminates, audience eliminates, 3 scenes, etc.) and the Guest Game and Triptych (like a Harold without games between rounds, and the three plots can start to interweave by the third round). Another less narrative longform is to do a series of scenes around a theme or suggestion -- no obligation to relate them in any concrete way.

Roy Janik · Post by **Roy Janik** » March 6th, 2007, 9:57 pm

Ooh! Ooh! Jeremy, tell the one about how the Well Hung Jury stumbled into longform by doing Character Freeze.

kaci_beeler · Post by **kaci_beeler** » March 6th, 2007, 11:10 pm

Relationship freeze is a nice transition game (because it's more scenes than anything else).
Watching longform shows is extremely valuable. See as many as you can.

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » March 7th, 2007, 12:23 am

well, i think andy beat me to it and nailed it.
the main difference is gag vs. story (at least in my style of play [others place importance elsewhere])
are you going to work on the narrative with your next line or are you going to go for the gag? the best longform displays the group's ability to alternate between the two, giving the necessary attention to each as the story unfolds.

there are a myriad other differences between longform and shortform aside from what we've just mentioned; such as story structure, scene structure, themes, character archetypes, genre recognition, character development, the circle of expectations and so much more. it really is a big sea of helpful guidelines for creating good longform, and as i've said there are a couple approaches to acheive longform success. you just have to find what works best for your group.
the group will hopefully develop its own style through rehearsal and show experimentation. imitation is not a bad thing in rehearsal. if you see something a group does in a show that you like, rehearse that format and see if it fits for you. eventually you may want to invent your own.

when the jury was developing our style, i was taking from theatresports ideologies, stuff i found online, and what we discovered in rehearsal. relationship freeze is a great game to get your longform feet under you. it teaches a lot about status, reincorporation, and sometimes great story arcs can develop.
guest game, too, as andy mentioned. and triptych i remember learning from dan o'connor way back in 99 as a good struture for longform.

and bryan, being a student of the game and having three years of shortform under your belt are going to put you worlds beyond where you think you are in the next step to longform. i think almost everyone gets into short before long. i said almost, jastroch, almost. it's just the natural progression of things and it seems to work out great for most everyone. of course, some people are happy with just doing shortform and that's awesome, too.

this is great, though. i know you can do it and do it well.

Jastroch · Post by **Jastroch** » March 7th, 2007, 2:01 am

beardedlamb wrote: i said almost, jastroch, almost. it's just the natural progression of things and it seems to work out great for most everyone. of course, some people are happy with just doing shortform and that's awesome, too.

this is great, though. i know you can do it and do it well.

Hah! You know me too well.

arthursimone · Post by **arthursimone** » March 7th, 2007, 3:32 am

my "longform moment" came when I found myself hating the end of the scene. A common and dangerous mindset of shortform is that you pound out the funny like a teenager getting laid, relying heavily on someone else to call "scene" or "freeze" or pull lights at the exact moment the wick is flickering its last wickflicker.

I love approaching scenes knowing I could be committed to this character for a single minute or a goddamn hour. It's what makes it fun, its what makes me bring my a-game on every level, it never fails to challenge me.

York99 · Post by **York99** » March 7th, 2007, 3:05 pm

I started out doing short-form and fell in love with improv. I went to see long-form and it opened my eyes to a whole world where what I was learning could go. Making connections between different scenes and following a whole plot or theme development are the things that make longform longform to me.

phlounderphil · Post by **phlounderphil** » March 7th, 2007, 6:35 pm

For Longform Narrative:
Read some good stories, refresh your mind on what it is that makes those stories good stories to begin with.

Imagine the basic foundation of a good scenic game (Character / Relationship / Objective / Where) blown up into monumentous proportions. And stick with that as much as you can.

Read a good play, refresh your mind on what it is that makes that play interesting to begin with.

Always look for the subtleties and find ways to make them shine.

Try to resist the urge to control the story or flow of the show (most everyone does it at first). Again, a basic rule of game improv (Yes, And) blown up to cover the whole show. If you are trying to control the story or flow, you are denying the show as a whole.

Have a goal in most everything you do (in a game, you can get through without a clear goal - in a longform you need a goal to drive your characters through every scene). The simpler the goal, the better.

Practice this in real life, go into a conversation focused on a goal (I want to cheer this person up / I want this person to go away). You'll realize that we do these things all of the time, but never know it. Being aware of that will make you a better character actor, and thus, a better longform improviser.

And ultimately, perform a longform, there's no learning like stage learning. You guys have got a LOT of experience performing for a lot of people, if your first longform fails as a longform, you'll be smart enough to still make it entertaining. (Yet again, it happens with most of us).

Best of luck to ye!

valetoile · Post by **valetoile** » March 7th, 2007, 7:49 pm

six degrees gives a nice format for narrative improv- it keeps you from alternating between scene with A and B, scene with C and D- every character is related to two other characters, and all the realtoinships tie together. You can do it really basically, just going through the initial relationships, or you can draw it out longer and give the story a long arc. You can do a quickly version for warmups, where you just talk out the relationships and objectives.