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  • deroosisonfire Offline
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Post by deroosisonfire »

andrea wrote:since i had never learned how to be ok with trying things that didn't work, i really struggled for about a year and a half. those who know me know what i mean. i am still reaping the benefits of frequent panic attacks and general malaise when my research is not going as planned. however, over two years later, i am finally starting to realize that solving hard problems is HARD and that sometimes useful things can be learned from mistakes.
Christoph wrote:So, there's this transition point where you have to apply that persistence and self-correction to yourself exclusively in what feels like a vacuum. And many many people hit a wall right there. There's like a 10:1 acceptance rate in my department's PhD program, and then something like 70% of that group never even finish. That's ugly, and has to be awfully disappointing.
This is why I am not finishing my PhD.

The biggest psychological strain for me in grad school has been constantly being wrong. I cannot handle the frustration of hitting my head against a wall for a year and having no real progress be made, learning almost nothing from the process. My particular problems have been a mystery to everyone in the department, nobody understands why it won't work and that means that either there's something really interesting going on or I am terrible at labwork. And honestly, I believe it is the latter. I could eventually solve this problem and make it work, but I could only continue until I hit the next wall that I would have to spend months, even years tackling. I don't have the energy to fight against the unknown everyday of my career. It is too tiring to feel like I am continually battling to find the right answer and prove to everyone that I really am smart. That's how grad school makes me feel.

Reading the article and Andrea and Christoph's comments really helped clear up a lot of my own feelings on why I hate school so much. It's a relief.
"There's no such thing as extra pepperoni. There's just pepperoni you can transfer to another person."
-Wes
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Post by Christoph »

Hang in there, deroos! Interesting that we're having similar experiences even though our fields are so different. There's no way I can be judged "wrong" in the way an experiment or proof might be. I can definitely misrepresent my findings or make logical errors and I will be judged on the "elegance" of my research question, which is probably something you all deal with. But for me there's a lot resting on building a convincing argument which is partly based on just my rhetorical choices and also on being straightforward (and thorough) about the cultural and literary theory I'm using, history of the forms, history of the field, and so on. In my field there's a lot put on disclosing the boundaries of your inquiry, too, and when you've done that you've more or less declared your allegiance to an approach. That's also been part of my resistence - choosing sides. A friend of mine (recently finished) told me: it's all a mind fuck. You just have to find a way around it.
Life is like trying to swim in a vat of blackstrap molasses while handcuffed. You can't win, but anger doesn't get you anywhere. - James Thurber

Post by Wesley »

Simply fascinating. I can really empathize with this Thomas kid.

I, too, was one of the "smart" kids (after doing unusually well on an aptitutde test in second grade the state wanted to skip me ahead multiple grades. Long story short, I didn't, though I did spend the next several years sitting in the hall with one other kid doing advanced work while everyone else sat in the classroom).
For a while, I loved everything, but I definitely felt stupid when I didn't achieve like other kids did. I quit piano under the auspices of being young and wanting to play outside (which is true), but also because I secretly felt like the slow kid in recitals. Like I was the one who wasn't advancing as fast or who "didn't get it." I tried, but it frustrated and embarrassed me and I quit. I really did quit a number of things I wasn't quickly good at--even things I liked.
In fact, there's only ever been two things in my life I ever did feel naturally gifted at and I threw myself into both 138% when I discovered them: martial arts and improv. You see how dedicated I am to improv, and thanks to Christina I'm getting back into some martial arts.

What is odd, however, is that in both these endeavors I actively did and do seek out failure as a means to growth.

I'm addicted with risking failure in improv by wanting to try out new formats unrehearsed and doing wild things to inform characters. I always want to go to the absolute edge of my abilities and then a little farther and I'm totally OK with falling on my face in front of friends and audiences so long as I am really pushing the limits.
In martial arts, I always wanted to spar the guy that was bigger than me or that stuided a different style. I can remember getting my ass kicked by a karate fighter after studying Tae Kwon Do for several years and actually realizing with each hit that got through how beneficial the act of getting beaten was and how much I was learning from every blow. It also made me realize that no one form was superior and led to me studying so many different types of fighting styles for so many years.
(The same is true in improv, where I have preferences, but see the value inhherent in every type of short-form, long-form, Chcago, San Fran, etc. I joke about elitism, but I really don't have any dislike for any particular style. Each is valid, but different.)

It is odd that there is some internal switch that says "failure in that area is the result of some personal flaw or inadequacy and you should quit to avoid appearing stupid, while failure in this other area is an opportunity for growth and improvement."

I'm the kid that at some point heard someone say "you are not living up to your potential" and thought "I have never heard a more accurate statement in my life." I have rarely lived up to what I am truly capable of. But trying to live up to it and failing was always too intimidating.
I think that life trend is finally changing, but I can definitely see where the pressures of being "the smart one" have negatively impacted or put limitations on my life. Not solely responsible, mind you (in the end, that is all me), but definitely one of the variables.

What a fascinating piece of research.
"I do."
--Christina de Roos . . . Bain . . . Christina Bain
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Post by Miggy »

As Chris said, hang in there DeRoos!

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Post by Christoph »

Wesley wrote:I'm addicted with risking failure in improv by wanting to try out new formats unrehearsed and doing wild things to inform characters. I always want to go to the absolute edge of my abilities and then a little farther and I'm totally OK with falling on my face in front of friends and audiences so long as I am really pushing the limits.
This is the really impressive thing to me about improv performers. Taking the class at Coldtowne made me hyper-aware that I have about 10 filters between my brain and mouth. It was a bit of a challenge. Maybe I managed to drop one or two in the 8 weeks. There are a few areas of my life where I am more than willing to fail, and flail, and take some pride in it. Talking apparently isn't one of them, yet.
Life is like trying to swim in a vat of blackstrap molasses while handcuffed. You can't win, but anger doesn't get you anywhere. - James Thurber
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