Egad! Ft. Worth Improv Guys Frighten Me!

ChrisTrew.Com · Post by **ChrisTrew.Com** » November 27th, 2006, 4:39 pm

"Be careful what you wish for, brother. We went to Chicago, did Harolds, fell in love with improv, then wanted to make money off of improv and now look at us. Be careful what you wish for."

- 4 Day Weekend, Ft. Worth Improv Group

These guys are mega-successful - own their own theater (212 seats that consistently sell out), bar, etc. in downtown Ft. Worth. And it's a super nice theater too. They do a fast paced mixture of games with the occassional scene throw in there. A lot of songs and audience participation stuff.

After the show Jill Morris and I talked shop with a couple of them. They acted like they were stuck in a trap, that they wish they would be doing long form still, but they know they can't travel across the country making thousands of dollars performing for hundreds of people doing it. It was so strange. They kept saying how they refused to apologize for their show, but then they would get all smiley faced when they thought about their long-form past.

I asked him hypothetically if he would ever come to Austin and perform for free if it meant he could do whatever type of improv he wanted. He said no because his wife wouldn't let him and he would lose too much money and he wishes he could but he can't. Then he told me again to be careful what I wish for. Then he said he wasn't going to apologize for his show. Again.

These guys teach long form in classes. I asked him what does he tell his students who are learning the Harold at noon and then see him doing this show at 7. He said he always feels bad when there are improvisers in the crowd and that he sends his students to Chicago because they have improv sewn up there and long form doesn't have a chance.

So.
...Would you?

I'm all about doing corporate improv work because I believe in the philosophies and love teaching it, but I don't think I could handle that full time. I'd rather be waiting tables, riding bikes, and long forming at night than eating out, driving cars, and short forming every night.

Cut to me ten years later.

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » November 27th, 2006, 6:06 pm

Nadine and I went to see these guys on Friday.

Four Day Weekend

They run four shows a weekend on Fridays and Saturdays (7:30 and 10:00) in a 212 seat theatre and probably sell out at least two of those. Tickets are $17 per person. Which means they're pulling anywhere between $7000 and $15000 on ticket sales alone. And they sell drinks, and they teach classes and they do corporate gigs.

And you couldn't design more commercial, audience-friendly improv. Their shape of show was great, the hosting and musical accompanist were hardcore professional. It was pleasant and fun all the way through. These guys have done an amazing job putting together a wildly successful improv theatre. There's a lot not to apologize for.

But surely, if they're doing that well, they could throw in a longform or experimental slot. Take the $2000 hit each weekend to do what you really love? Or at least encourage and support other people in town who would like to experiment with something less certain.

We should start slowly and subtly wooing them. Get at least a couple of them to come down for a show sometime. Get them to come for a mini festival? Let them headline? Hmm.

Jules · Post by **Jules** » November 27th, 2006, 6:44 pm

yeah, that doesn't make sense. I'd think they could develop a long form audience, even one slot a week.

nadine · Post by **nadine** » November 27th, 2006, 6:55 pm

Yeah.. like an "experimental" slot. I guess the chances are people may go to that slot, see a bad show, and refused to come again. I'm betting they get a lot of repeat customers.

The show wasn't bad, I chuckled until my jaw hurts. But it was like umm.. comedy candy. We brought an older woman who's never seen improv before, and she liked it.

I heard parts of it were scripted though. Boo!

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » November 27th, 2006, 7:46 pm

i saw these guys in maybe 98 or 99. i liked the show a lot and noticed they made the trip for big stinkins. i invited them to the first two out of bounds' and then gave up inviting them.
i couldn't do that much shortform. i've had my own troubles trying to sell longform to colleges and have had to compromise, but i think considering the success that longform has had in new york and san fran and chicago and la and to a smaller extent austin, i think these guys could slowly ween their audience off short form. there was a time only 10 years ago when there was no longform improv except in chicago and maybe san fran. but it is slowly becoming more accepted and it takes people willing to take that risk to integrate it into the public's subconcious of what they might see when going to see improv, to keep it growing.

achieving a measure of success makes it hard to maintain a quality of life if you suddenly pull in less money. taking a $2000 hit might be huge for them considering the payroll they have. it's hard to know what their budget is.

i'd love to do short form for an office party for lots of money, then go do longform for almost no money. i think, if we play our cards right, pretty soon we'll be able to do longform for more than almost no money. but we have to stay committed to what we love doing, whatever that may be, or we lose sight of the fact that it's an art.

i'm constantly trying to balance art vs. commodity. the pirate shows we did this weekend are a perfect example of what i'm willing to do to free up other time for booking shows and rehearsing stuff i like.

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » November 27th, 2006, 8:01 pm

and it just goes to show that even though you have achieved the success you are striving for, it may mean nothing or mean you're trapped if you overcompromise to get there.

Mo Daviau · Post by **Mo Daviau** » November 27th, 2006, 8:41 pm

We need to make a movie about a group of successful short-form players who yearn for their good ol' days as a longform troupe. They take a huge gamble that their Wayne Brady-loving repeat customers will embrace a longform set. Their accountants, spouses, a chain of cameos by improv celebs (esp. a particularly menacing Clive Anderson) tell them it can't be done. But they do it. Multiple wide shots of a huge audience laughing and cheering at their first commercial longform performance. Suddenly, longform is hot, nationwide! The masses want more than World's Worst! They want:

LONGFORM: The Movie.

It's a classic Hollywood story. Let's talk script and financing, people.

Jules · Post by **Jules** » November 27th, 2006, 8:48 pm

I'll get Christoph right on it. He's devastating with a screenplay.

ChrisTrew.Com · Post by **ChrisTrew.Com** » November 27th, 2006, 8:49 pm

They said that they tried to do an experimental slot and it tanked. People would come expecting to see a song sung and then complain. He also mentioned Big Stinkin' and said they've done all the festivals and they miss it, but there is no way they can go back.

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » November 27th, 2006, 10:38 pm

ChrisTrew.Com wrote:They said that they tried to do an experimental slot and it tanked. People would come expecting to see a song sung and then complain.

see: Electric Bill format. songs and longform.

sara farr · Post by **sara farr** » November 27th, 2006, 10:55 pm

When you get a comfortable, regular income, it is quite easy to become a slave to that income... and before you know it, you've become a hee-lot!

From Meet John Doe (Frank Capra):

Beany: What's a hee-lot?
The Colonel: You've ever been broke, sonny?
Beany: Sure, mostly often.
The Colonel: All right. You're walking along, not a nickel in your jeans, your free as the wind, nobody bothers ya. Hundreds of people pass you by in every line of buisness: shoes, hats, automobiles, radios, everything, and there all nice lovable people and they lets you alone, is that right? Then you get a hold of some dough and what happens, all those nice sweet lovable people become hee-lots, a lotta heels. They begin to creep up on ya, trying to sell ya something: they get long claws and they get a stranglehold on ya, and you squirm and you duck and you holler and you try to push them away but you haven't got the chance. They gots ya. First thing ya know you own things, a car for instance, now your whole life is messed up with alot more stuff: you get license fees and number plates and gas and oil and taxes and insurance and identification cards and letters and bills and flat tires and dents and traffic tickets and motorcycle cops and tickets and courtrooms and lawers and fines and... a million and one other things. What happens? You're not the free and happy guy you used to be. You need to have money to pay for all those things, so you go after what the other fellas got. There you are, you're a hee-lot yourself.

kbadr · Post by **kbadr** » November 28th, 2006, 12:20 am

I really refuse to accept the idea that 'there's not an audience for longform.' That seems like such crap to me. People watch movies, people watch TV shows, people watch STORIES.

I've maintained for a long time that the problem with trying to sell longform is that we often expect "it's a story! it's made up!" to be enough to get an audience to come. It's not. That works only slightly better than how much "there's a film coming out! It's about stuff!" would draw audiences to the movie theatre.

beardedlamb · Post by **beardedlamb** » November 28th, 2006, 1:03 am

well, what really draws people to a flim? a particular actor, a director, or a storyline that they've seen advertised that interests them. austin improv has trouble with all of these because no one is famous and the stories are superfresh.
but i agree, for me, good longform is similar to the plot of a good movie and it's definitely something people are familiar with. moreso, i would say than montage or any of the other non play-type format.

acrouch · Post by **acrouch** » November 28th, 2006, 2:58 am

Mo Daviau wrote:a movie about a group of successful short-form players who yearn for their good ol' days as a longform troupe.

That really is a fantastic idea, Mo. Reminds me of Slings and Arrows (Canadian series about a Shakespeare festival that gets shaken out of its complacency and compromise).

mcnichol · Post by **mcnichol** » November 28th, 2006, 7:35 am

kbadr wrote:I really refuse to accept the idea that 'there's not an audience for longform.' That seems like such crap to me.

Me too. I don't believe in that. There's an audience for anything -- it's the awareness that the (potential) audience has that such a thing exists that is the key. I didn't particularly like improv until I saw that it could be something other than games over and over ("comedy candy" as Nadine put it)... meaning, until I saw it was something other than what i thought 'improv' meant.

I believe there's an audience of potential fans in Ft. Worth (and in Austin) that just don't know that 'what we do' = 'the word they know as improv'. The reason I have to believe this is that longform improv is and has been successful in other cities, and I've seen it be grown and cultivated recently in cities like NYC, where 15 years ago they only had shortform and commedia stuff. Once UCB moved in, it seemed to spark something up there and there's now a massive audience and seemingly endless stream of people learning it. UCB Theater wasn't a huge success right away -- they had a small 50 something seat theater for a long time and the one show i saw in that space (with Matt Walsh and Leo Allen) had 4 people in the audience. But they just worked their ass off (having a show on Comedy Central probably helped with visibility too) and have been able to get to where they are now. I think we are in a similar position. We're no NYC, but I think we are slowly raising this awareness of improv (in all its forms) here in Austin. All of the recognition and successes over the last year are a testament to that.

Anyway, more to Chris' question/point, I would rather do what I love and make a success of that on it's own terms, than compromise myself simply to make money. And this is NO slight to the guys in Ft. Worth. I think it's truly great that they have made improv that successful for themselves. But from what you're telling me they've said, I would hate to be in their situation (love vs money)

Love Over Gold