The ColdTowne Theater Cage Match

[Wesley]

having 2 AIC productions running simultaneously is dangerous because it's splits up the audience. the AIC is not at a point in it's growth where multiple competing shows is advisable.

I completely disagree. In fact, I think competing shows at this juncture are just what the AIC needs.

First, the theater locations are completely different and prone to attracting a very different crowd. I'd say we're competing more on time and a less on demographics. Hideout is off 6th and can pull in a huge student crowd I would suspect. ColdTowne is great for people who don't want to drive into downtown and deal with that parking and noise nonsense. I can't tell you the number of people that have said "oh, that's near where I live, awesome!" or "that's so much better because I hate downtown." The people we pick up at one venue, at this point, are probably not "stolen" from the other (save improvisers and people we know, who we should NOT be relying on to fill houses anyway). Hell, they probably didn't even know about the other.

So long as we keep hammering home the message at all venues that "improv is happening everywhere" and pushing people to the websites, I think competing shows are great. It widens the net to catch people who might not have ever discovered another venue. It takes it to them instead of them having to find us. And once they're hooked in one place, they are more likely to check out others.

Also, competing shows will force the shows to...well...compete. This means each will have to advertise harder. That means more net advertising. I cannot tell you the rush of joy I got trying to paper this town with Pgraph flyers and already finding a CTT flier at every location I went to. It became a game to find a spot they'd missed! If every show slot was like that, there's no way we'd go unnoticed.

Again, there are some 1.5+ million people in the greater Austin area. If we can't get 90 into two theaters at the same time, I don't feel the fault is with them--that is our fault and our fault alone.
I refuse to believe that the audience "isn't there" in Austin yet. It may not be a 'trained' improv audience, but I believe the potential audience is out there, they just don't know about our product.

And smart, conservative businesses often do compete with themselves. It forces each unit to be more innovative and avoid complacency. For example, the same people that make digital video recorders that skip commercials are now marketing products to compete with their own DVRs to networks. Many brand name companies also own generic product lines of the same products. It is healthy to growth and creativeness.

[Wesley]

As for the CM itself, I thought I posted this, but I don't see it.

Yes, we just spent a lot of money. This is a mixed blessing. We should give it some time to bear fruit...but not too much. We shouldn't use the spent money as an excuse not to make a better business move if one is available. Sometimes you take the wash to perform better in the long run. If it isn't working by the end of February, I say we really look at a March move.

I like the move for two primary reasons:

1) I think a Friday show is easier to make than a Saturday show and I would love to move the Blank Show to Fridays. I know CT would support the CM by the show's nature (c'mon, they're doing an entire wrestling over-dub show) and I like the earlier slot and competition. The only downside I see in this is competing for players (i.e. my team wins the CM, but is scheduled in the Double Barell next week).

2) I would love to move the Saturday show not only for the show's more likely success, but to free up Saturday nights for hanging out as a community like we used to. Mass trips to Opals or Gingerman or after parties after Maestro. I think it behooves the community to maintain this tight bond as we spread to different venues more often and try to pick up new people.

I think 11:30 slots downtown are hard to make for that very reason. I believe people want to see a show and then go out. 11:30 makes that hard because you can't get anywhere else until 1 am. It is an inherently difficult time slot.

I think it will take constant dedication and advertising to keep those slots half-full in a downtown location (I think they'd work better elsewhere). I still think it is worth it to try, but only doing one on Friday and moving the other makes good sense to me.

[Jastroch]

I'd also like to add that the whole conversation was prompted by the idea of cancelling the cage match outright.

[kbadr]

I'd also like to add that the whole conversation was prompted by the idea of cancelling the cage match outright.

Yes, precisely.
If the options are "cancel" or "move to theater that wants to host it", it's a no-brainer.

[acrouch]

Let's give the current advertising push a chance to pan out (through the next scheduling cycle, maybe? Jan/Feb) and see what's what. That's when our shows got flush this past year, so it should give us a high water mark for what we're doing right now. If we still feel like we're way overreaching our grasp with too many shows at the Hideout, not enough audiences, not enough improviser support, then we can have this conversation again.

[beardedlamb]

I refuse to believe that the audience "isn't there" in Austin yet. It may not be a 'trained' improv audience, but I believe the potential audience is out there, they just don't know about our product.

?

i agree with the second sentence. in other words, the audience is not there yet.


i also think that 1.5 million people does not translate into 1.5 potential audience members. moreover, if we attempted to market to each of these 1.5 million, we'd go bankrupt before seeing enough return to justify that kind of logic. that's not to say that we shouldn't maximize our resources and reach out to as many as possible. did you put up any pgraph posters in pflugerville? manchaca? Buda? north of 51st street? south of ben white? was it because of money and time constraints or because the returns are diminished as you head away from downtown? or both?

sure, there's lots of people surrounding austin and let's grab as many as we can, but potential growth does not equal actual, realized growth.

the basis for our arguments might be in our perception or definitions of "growth."

[York99]

I refuse to believe that the audience "isn't there" in Austin yet. It may not be a 'trained' improv audience, but I believe the potential audience is out there, they just don't know about our product.

?

i agree with the second sentence. in other words, the audience is not there yet.


i also think that 1.5 million people does not translate into 1.5 potential audience members. moreover, if we attempted to market to each of these 1.5 million, we'd go bankrupt before seeing enough return to justify that kind of logic. that's not to say that we shouldn't maximize our resources and reach out to as many as possible. did you put up any pgraph posters in pflugerville? manchaca? Buda? north of 51st street? south of ben white? was it because of money and time constraints or because the returns are diminished as you head away from downtown? or both?

sure, there's lots of people surrounding austin and let's grab as many as we can, but potential growth does not equal actual, realized growth.

the basis for our arguments might be in our perception or definitions of "growth."

Marketing was my concentration in business school, so I'm obviously smarter than anyone else... or a bigger prick, I forget which. The point is that smart marketing is targeted marketing. Our audience is out there, they just don't know that they are our audience yet. Blanketing the city and outlying areas with flyers will likely garner a return simply by chance and probability. That doesn't mean that it's the best, most efficient use of our resources.

For example (and hold on to your hats here) I don't think there should be a big effort to market to UT students. The ones with disposable income are in fraternities and sororities and prefer to go to parties and look for hook-ups. The ones without disposable income are too busy studying, working and buying Ramen noodles. Sure there are some there, but not enough to justify blanketing a 70 bajillion acre campus to find them.

In extremely simple terms, step one is figuring out who our target audience is and step two is figuring out which method of promotions best speaks to them.

I've been slowly working on a marketing plan, but there are so many other, more immediate things that I am dealing with that this keeps getting shoved to the bottom of my to-do list. Maybe I'll throw things out step by step on the forum and try it that way.

[arclight]

Godspeed York, godspeed!

[erikamay]

The point is that smart marketing is targeted marketing. Our audience is out there, they just don't know that they are our audience yet.

agreed.

AND, i might add that the target for the various shows AND troupes are different, although overlap exists.

specifically, i think YM&G and AC get big returns from campus efforts. however, i dont think the of college students as a target for the Frank Mills (even though we aim to delight and entertain ALL audiences); that's why we focus on other audiences.

i encourage everyone to think about who the (ugh) "low hanging fruit" are (thank you marketing degree) and pursue those audiences first. once you have a solid base (can turn out 15-20 people for your shows) start working on the next larger concentric circle.

on point of another post - i would be happy to discuss targeting fundamentals in the media relations workshop with jastroch. communications consulting is _now_ a big part of what i do for a living, and i think everyone can be better ambassadors for improv and their specific projects.

marketing is hottttt.

[improvstitute]

I believe improv in Austin is seasonal. We have hot streaks with big audience turnout and cold streaks with lots of cancelled shows due to lack of audience. I think, and perhaps others who have been improvising here for a while can back me up, it has alot to do with the weather. We do well outside of "patio season". We are coming up on that time of year. People want something to do that is inside when it is too cold outside. Improv is fun and they can drink wine and beer. However, when it warms up, our numbers dwindle. People like being outside enjoying their patios.

This does not have to be this way forever. It is just a trend that I have noticed since I have been improvising. In addition, we have been having the same marketing discussions for years around here. Yet we never can seem to find the solution. Granted there has been little more than print ads/flying used as forms of marketing, but this has not been all that effective either.

I'd like to challenge all of us who are interested in marketing to come up with something/s new and unique that will translate to butts in seats. There have been some great ideas that I have heard in recent months, but no follow through to my knowledge (protesting the heat, free improv weekend, improv weekend to benefit some charity, etc.) These sorts of things = free publicity if we play our cards wisely. The nice thing is that people don't have to actually see the shows for us to gain name recognition. I really think that if we get our name out there as a supportive organization, then we will be more supported by the community. You gotta give a little to get a little.

If you guys think this is a good idea, I'd be happy to head a committee of people who be intrested in doing some sort of benefit with improv. Perhaps a quarterly or bi-annually occuring event where we partner up with some corporate sponsors and do a benefit weekend. I have proposed it before...Laughs For Lives. I actually would like to spin it into my own non-profit some day. I think it could be a great way to generate a buzz about the AIC and give something back in return.

In any case, the cold is approaching and we need to take full advantage of it!

[Wesley]

I don't think there should be a big effort to market to UT students.

Here, here!
I think we should market there, but I've never liked the idea of becoming dependent on students for audience or using "we'll wait until school starts again" as a benchmark for whether or not a show or slot will work.

They are by nature seasonal (maybe some of the seasonality isn't that people want to be on a patio so much as the audience we courted moved back to Maine for three months). And half of them don't have transportation or aren't old enough to drink, so wandering downtown on the weekend is probably less appealing to them than we think. And, as York said, money and time and all that.

Hit 'em up as we would hit anyone up, but don't depend on them. We should aim to fill that theater just as full on December 22nd or July 15 as mid-October. The audience is there. We just need to find ways to reach them.

[kbadr]

Can we get some actual concrete marketing ideas instead of diatribes, posits, and philosophies. This periodic marketing debate, if you could call it that, does little to actually provide solutions to the problems we love to waste time broadcasting.

Yeah, I'm that asshole.

(Ted, your idea for some sort of benefit show is a good one. We should make it happen, though I think we need to be careful about producing too many annual improv festivals/events that involve the same troupes from in town)

[Wesley]

Can we get some actual concrete marketing ideas instead of diatribes, posits, and philosophies.

That is the purview of the Executive and Advertising Director and thier committees, or of venues, show owners, and troupes.

Philosophies and diatribes from the community are how those people arrive at those decisions. We're just stating our feelings and beliefs on the subject so they can be considered. It's called democracy. It's called freedom. It's called the American way.

It's called wasting time at work.

[improvstitute]

(Ted, your idea for some sort of benefit show is a good one. We should make it happen, though I think we need to be careful about producing too many annual improv festivals/events that involve the same troupes from in town)

Agreed...too many big festival-type events can be counter-productive. What do we have going as of now? Wafflefest, OOB (though not and AIC productiuon), and...I am sure I am missing others...help me.

[Roy Janik]

(Ted, your idea for some sort of benefit show is a good one. We should make it happen, though I think we need to be careful about producing too many annual improv festivals/events that involve the same troupes from in town)

Agreed...too many big festival-type events can be counter-productive. What do we have going as of now? Wafflefest, OOB (though not and AIC productiuon), and...I am sure I am missing others...help me.

I disagree. I think a Wafflefest-level event every 2 months or so would be fine, and an excellent way of getting audience in. I've got several ideas...

Fauxfest (improv troupes make up new identities/formats for one night... Pussycake, anyone?)
24 Hour Improv Fest
National Free Night of Improv
Storytelling Festival

etc...

Bill them/market them differently, and give each one a different owner so that they don't have the same feel and it doesn't fall to the same people each time... but the more we can make special events happen that make the audience feel they're part of something, the better.