You're going on the assumption that long-form = for the bourgeoisie and short-form = for the plebes. I will go on the record that I have seen FAR more racism, cursing, and implied sex in your standard long-form shows than in your standard short-form shows. Stick that up your Beluga.phlounderphil wrote:They'll be performing all your favorite short-form games, serving warm chili, and insulting your intelligence. It all combines for a wonderful evening of fun. Members of Coldtowne, The Frank Mills, IFE, and Parallelogramophonograph will not be allowed to enter the theater for the first thirty minutes.
THEN, they'll kick the first audience out, invite in all the refugees who weren't allowed into the shortform show. Dump all of the chili out and begin serving the finest Beluga caviar and champagne while they present a structured longform Harold narrative with dramatic overtones and some substance for once.
long form vs everything else
Discussion of the art and craft of improvisation.
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- kbadr Offline
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I will break into your home and bleed you like a stuck pig.Wesley wrote: You have to admit though, when The JokR (or was it Gesture), punched that other guy in the crotch and called it comedy, a guffaw in fact went up.
I propose a mandatory crotch punch in all of our shows, games or not, as that is obviously what the people want.
That would mean that the 3fer would be three crotch-puntastic shows for the price of one!
"Honey, trust me, you'll love it! It's like they make all this stuff up on the fly and then punch each other in the crotches! THE CROTCHES!"
You work your life away and what do they give?
You're only killing yourself to live
- TexasImprovMassacre Offline
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- phlounderphil Offline
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that starting out a show with short form, isn't really the equivalent of starting the show with a blow job. Chili cookoff maybe. Warmups are a common thing to bring into a lot of experiences. Live studio audiences are warmed up with short bits of comedy before lot's of different kinds of programs. I'm not saying anything should be required of anyone. BUT warming up the audience with something quick and sweet seems like a good idea to me.
Handjobs, not blowjobs. The difference is enormous.
Blow=cocaine.
My point is that just because it's fun (sometimes REALLY fun) doesn't mean it's what we want to do with the audience. Bob earlier mentioned that switching gears like that could be detrimental to a long-form show.
During OoB when Jokyr and Jesster were doing their show, the audience had a vibe of high energy participation for whatever reason. Had Jesse and Joe not been such good performers as to be able to roll with it so well, it could have ruined their show. I, on the other hand, would have been waiting for certain people in the parking lot with a tire iron.
I'm not saying the two forms can't co-exist, but when the audience is in the mood for one thing and you give them another, it's just not fair to that group.
But let's not drop the hand jobs and blow idea.
Blow=cocaine.
My point is that just because it's fun (sometimes REALLY fun) doesn't mean it's what we want to do with the audience. Bob earlier mentioned that switching gears like that could be detrimental to a long-form show.
During OoB when Jokyr and Jesster were doing their show, the audience had a vibe of high energy participation for whatever reason. Had Jesse and Joe not been such good performers as to be able to roll with it so well, it could have ruined their show. I, on the other hand, would have been waiting for certain people in the parking lot with a tire iron.
I'm not saying the two forms can't co-exist, but when the audience is in the mood for one thing and you give them another, it's just not fair to that group.
But let's not drop the hand jobs and blow idea.
"Every cat dies 9 times, but every cat does not truly live 9 lives."
-Bravecat
-Bravecat
Oh lord, how could I have confused a handjob with a blowjob?!?! But is it wrong to want a little improvisational foreplay?
These days I'm in the audience alot more than I'm on the stage (although I'm certainly open to changing that!!) and what I think would be helpful, is if those putting on the show either gave a longer introduction to the long form they're going to perform, or warmed me up first with some shorter quick laugh activities. My preference is mostly for the longer introduction.
Props to P-graph for giving great introductions to whatever improv activity they are about to embark on.
Let me also say though, that I don't think that any art has to be sacrificed to do short form improv. For those of you who are quick to pooh pooh the shorter games and other forms of on the spot, quick-wit requiring activities, just remember that audiences are diverse with diverse interests, tastes and senses of humor. All improv is expressive and valuable.
These days I'm in the audience alot more than I'm on the stage (although I'm certainly open to changing that!!) and what I think would be helpful, is if those putting on the show either gave a longer introduction to the long form they're going to perform, or warmed me up first with some shorter quick laugh activities. My preference is mostly for the longer introduction.
Props to P-graph for giving great introductions to whatever improv activity they are about to embark on.
Let me also say though, that I don't think that any art has to be sacrificed to do short form improv. For those of you who are quick to pooh pooh the shorter games and other forms of on the spot, quick-wit requiring activities, just remember that audiences are diverse with diverse interests, tastes and senses of humor. All improv is expressive and valuable.
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- ChrisTrew.Com Offline
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I'm not a fan of explaining too much of what's about to happen on stage. I don't think most audiences care about how the deconstruction works or what is happening during the Harold. I think they just want to have fun watching us have fun. Explanations suck the energy for me.
My favorite show intro is Whirled News Tonight.
Musicm lights.
"Welcome to Whirled News Tonight, where the news is real and everything else is improvised. Tonight's top story..."
Bang, show.
I think that's slicker than -
"Welcome to Whirled News Tonight. Tonight we will be reading newspaper articles and then performing scenes based off of the news. Some scenes will use themes from the article and some will use the people and places in the article. Tonight's top story..."
DATS MY OPP
My favorite show intro is Whirled News Tonight.
Musicm lights.
"Welcome to Whirled News Tonight, where the news is real and everything else is improvised. Tonight's top story..."
Bang, show.
I think that's slicker than -
"Welcome to Whirled News Tonight. Tonight we will be reading newspaper articles and then performing scenes based off of the news. Some scenes will use themes from the article and some will use the people and places in the article. Tonight's top story..."
DATS MY OPP
I definitely agree that unwieldy explanations consume energy.ChrisTrew.Com wrote:I'm not a fan of explaining too much of what's about to happen on stage. I don't think most audiences care about how the deconstruction works or what is happening during the Harold. I think they just want to have fun watching us have fun. Explanations suck the energy for me.
But I always like some explanation. Wait, that's not true. For Whirled News Tonight, your intro is PERFECT... because people came to see Whirled News Tonight.
But for shows like The Double Barrel or the Threefer, the audience has no idea what to expect from the troupes, so if they're doing anything that will confuse the audience unless it's explained, it should be explained. You know, in my opinion.
For me a good explanation for most longform PGraph shows is just "Hi, we're Parallelogramophonograph. Tonight e're going to tell you a single improvised story. And to get started, we would like a suggestion..."
PGraph plays every Thursday at 8pm! https://www.hideouttheatre.com/shows/pgraph/
This mix of ideas and the conflicting notions about combining short-form with long-form with live music and more... it nearly makes my head explode.
And then I remembered, this is exactly the format of the longest-running improv comedy show in New York City history.
Chicago City Limits was their name, and they started in 1978. George Todisco, Paul Zuckerman, Linda Gelman & co. all went from Second City to NYC in order to do theater about the same time their cohorts Belushi, Akrody, Radner et al went there to try to do TV. CCL is still putting up five shows a week, at Off-Broadway prices of about $25/person.
The CCL format is a mix. I always thought of it as "medium-form." Not as silly gamey-game and ADD as short form is wont to be; not as free-flowing and disjunct as some long-form gets. It's a two-hour show, with an intermission. There is a live piano player. The first act usually went like this:
>Piano player enters, plays an overture of sorts.
>One of the cast comes out, asks the audience for a suggestion of "a word, a phrase, an idea, anything at all, just shout it out." Then they say, "You know, some people may like [suggestion]. But it gives us a case of the blues..." This leads to the first number...
1) an improvised blues song, with each of the four or five cast members taking a full verse and working in a joke about the suggestion into their lyrics. It's a crowd-pleaser, because most audience members think, "Holy cow! I could never come up with a song and a joke about [suggestion] on the spot like that!"
2) an improvised scene, with a moderator (one of the cast) occasionally stopping the scene and asking for audience input on what should happen next. For instance, "This man is about to give this woman a box. What is inside the box?" It's a blend between improvising a really good scene and letting the audience have some input. Usually the segments of scenes are done in different theater or playwright style as well, just to make it even sillier and more impressive.
3) short scripted sketch
4) a scenic game, such as Entrances & Exits or New Choice (which they called "Ding" because they used a little desk bell to indicate that a new choice should be made.
[[side note: The key to this (and all scene-based short form bits) was that at CCL, it was all about doing a really solid scene. The various obstacles/games were just playful bits for the cast to have fun with--but they still had to do good scenework, or they would get reamed by the director after the show. This is my main issue with the short-form games that I see played here in Austin: there is so much emphasis on the game portion of it that players seem to forget about the scene. The scene is primary! There should be no scenes with obstacles until the basics of good scenework are mastered first! But I digress...]]
5) short scripted sketch, maybe two
6) a 25-minute musical, based on a slightly memorable event that happened to somebody in the audience. For instance, I once gave the suggestion that I had cut my hand a couple days earlier, and I had spent a long time waiting in the ER before anybody got around to giving me stitches. The cast spun this into a hilarious musical that touched on cautionary tales about playing with knives, the ennui of resident nurses, and of course, making fun of my name.
Those half-dozen bits lasted about 50-55 minutes. Some short form, some long form, some scripted stuff. And this was just the first act!
The second act also included a mix. It had some jokier stuff, like an interview with the three-headed expert (each head delivering one word at a time) or a full-fledged Jeopardy! game. But it also incorporated great scenework, and a nice, meaty conducted narrative story, with actors each delivering their lines in the styles of different movie genres. This "movie" lasted at least 15 minutes, with the actors developing subplots and insanely beautiful character specifics. The shows traditionally ended with a piece called "Torture The Actor" which was like charades on steroids. It could last upwards of 20 minutes depending on how good the clue-giving scenework was and how sharp the torture victim was that night.
The key, of course, was that each bit was very clearly introduced. Any games were explained and demonstrated. The longer stuff was explained less but when an actor says, "We now bring you, 'Orf Cuts His Hand--THE MUSICAL!!!'" they catch on pretty quick. And when the piece stretches for longer than three minutes and starts developing characters and plot lines, they audience gets really impressed until they explode in applause at the end of it.
[[another side note: For New Year's Eve, they would whip up a Year-In-Review musical montage and add it into the mix. On Dec 31 CCL would sell out two shows at their 200-seat theater at $50 a pop. Very swank, and still to this day some of the best NYE parties I've ever been a part of.]]
When done well, the CCL shows caused people to react exactly as Arthur's post postulated, for BOTH short and long form: They think "Hoo! Haw! That was great fun, but I won't remember it tomorrow!" regarding the shorter stuff, but they are blown away and continue talking for days about the longer stuff. The combined effect is that the audience gets both immediate highs AND extended satisfaction. I think it's a pretty dang good model to follow, as 28 years of continuous operation can attest.
* * *
Then UCB came along and got a television show and became super-cool amongst all the hip kids, and then The P.I.T. opened with their low-budget mentality and their we-used-to-write-for-SNL street cred, and CCL had the rent on their theater jacked up due to neighborhood gentrification. So now they ply their craft at a smaller theater, but they still get enough business to do five shows a week, at $15-plus-2-drink-minimum per ticket.
* * *
Don't underestimate an audience's ability to adapt to both short form and long form and sketch and music. Most audience members I know are just looking to have a good time, and they'll totally dig a mix of all of the above so long as it is all performed well.
To paraphrase Jastroch,
Harumph![/i]
And then I remembered, this is exactly the format of the longest-running improv comedy show in New York City history.
Chicago City Limits was their name, and they started in 1978. George Todisco, Paul Zuckerman, Linda Gelman & co. all went from Second City to NYC in order to do theater about the same time their cohorts Belushi, Akrody, Radner et al went there to try to do TV. CCL is still putting up five shows a week, at Off-Broadway prices of about $25/person.
The CCL format is a mix. I always thought of it as "medium-form." Not as silly gamey-game and ADD as short form is wont to be; not as free-flowing and disjunct as some long-form gets. It's a two-hour show, with an intermission. There is a live piano player. The first act usually went like this:
>Piano player enters, plays an overture of sorts.
>One of the cast comes out, asks the audience for a suggestion of "a word, a phrase, an idea, anything at all, just shout it out." Then they say, "You know, some people may like [suggestion]. But it gives us a case of the blues..." This leads to the first number...
1) an improvised blues song, with each of the four or five cast members taking a full verse and working in a joke about the suggestion into their lyrics. It's a crowd-pleaser, because most audience members think, "Holy cow! I could never come up with a song and a joke about [suggestion] on the spot like that!"
2) an improvised scene, with a moderator (one of the cast) occasionally stopping the scene and asking for audience input on what should happen next. For instance, "This man is about to give this woman a box. What is inside the box?" It's a blend between improvising a really good scene and letting the audience have some input. Usually the segments of scenes are done in different theater or playwright style as well, just to make it even sillier and more impressive.
3) short scripted sketch
4) a scenic game, such as Entrances & Exits or New Choice (which they called "Ding" because they used a little desk bell to indicate that a new choice should be made.
[[side note: The key to this (and all scene-based short form bits) was that at CCL, it was all about doing a really solid scene. The various obstacles/games were just playful bits for the cast to have fun with--but they still had to do good scenework, or they would get reamed by the director after the show. This is my main issue with the short-form games that I see played here in Austin: there is so much emphasis on the game portion of it that players seem to forget about the scene. The scene is primary! There should be no scenes with obstacles until the basics of good scenework are mastered first! But I digress...]]
5) short scripted sketch, maybe two
6) a 25-minute musical, based on a slightly memorable event that happened to somebody in the audience. For instance, I once gave the suggestion that I had cut my hand a couple days earlier, and I had spent a long time waiting in the ER before anybody got around to giving me stitches. The cast spun this into a hilarious musical that touched on cautionary tales about playing with knives, the ennui of resident nurses, and of course, making fun of my name.
Those half-dozen bits lasted about 50-55 minutes. Some short form, some long form, some scripted stuff. And this was just the first act!
The second act also included a mix. It had some jokier stuff, like an interview with the three-headed expert (each head delivering one word at a time) or a full-fledged Jeopardy! game. But it also incorporated great scenework, and a nice, meaty conducted narrative story, with actors each delivering their lines in the styles of different movie genres. This "movie" lasted at least 15 minutes, with the actors developing subplots and insanely beautiful character specifics. The shows traditionally ended with a piece called "Torture The Actor" which was like charades on steroids. It could last upwards of 20 minutes depending on how good the clue-giving scenework was and how sharp the torture victim was that night.
The key, of course, was that each bit was very clearly introduced. Any games were explained and demonstrated. The longer stuff was explained less but when an actor says, "We now bring you, 'Orf Cuts His Hand--THE MUSICAL!!!'" they catch on pretty quick. And when the piece stretches for longer than three minutes and starts developing characters and plot lines, they audience gets really impressed until they explode in applause at the end of it.
[[another side note: For New Year's Eve, they would whip up a Year-In-Review musical montage and add it into the mix. On Dec 31 CCL would sell out two shows at their 200-seat theater at $50 a pop. Very swank, and still to this day some of the best NYE parties I've ever been a part of.]]
When done well, the CCL shows caused people to react exactly as Arthur's post postulated, for BOTH short and long form: They think "Hoo! Haw! That was great fun, but I won't remember it tomorrow!" regarding the shorter stuff, but they are blown away and continue talking for days about the longer stuff. The combined effect is that the audience gets both immediate highs AND extended satisfaction. I think it's a pretty dang good model to follow, as 28 years of continuous operation can attest.
* * *
Then UCB came along and got a television show and became super-cool amongst all the hip kids, and then The P.I.T. opened with their low-budget mentality and their we-used-to-write-for-SNL street cred, and CCL had the rent on their theater jacked up due to neighborhood gentrification. So now they ply their craft at a smaller theater, but they still get enough business to do five shows a week, at $15-plus-2-drink-minimum per ticket.
* * *
Don't underestimate an audience's ability to adapt to both short form and long form and sketch and music. Most audience members I know are just looking to have a good time, and they'll totally dig a mix of all of the above so long as it is all performed well.
To paraphrase Jastroch,
Harumph![/i]