NewYork vs Chicago vs Austin

[Improvwannabe]

Which is the best city to move to if I wanted to be ensconced in the scene?
I love Austin so very much.
However, Chicago is freaking Chicago.
And New York is where everything is right?

Any advice pls.

Thx!

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

Dublin.

sorry, what was the question?

[happywaffle]

Chicago is where you should go if you want to wrap up your whole life in improv, and if you want to "make it big" as an improviser. New York and LA are second and third place in that regard.

Austin is where you should stay if you want a supportive and inclusive community. If you move to any of the Big Three, you'll be amidst a sea of talented, funny people who are NOT just doing it for fun—they're doing it for keeps. The theaters are much more territorial and competitive. Don't get me wrong, you'll have a great time and see (and do) some amazing stuff. But unless you have a specific ambition to get on the national stage, I'd recommend Austin over any place in the country. We're doing great stuff right here at home. And we (mostly) love each other.

[Spots]

The big cities debate...

LA Chicago and New York are huge markets. This could be a good or bad thing based on your hopes and desires.

I've highlighted LA before. It's the only city of the big 3 that I've lived in. And I think Los Angeles best demonstrates the social dynamic which negates a city that's too big. A city with a flashing neon sign that says "improv." My biggest concern is the social dynamic of improv as a "stepping stone" to bigger and greater things. It's a dilemma when the stone being stepped on is your face.


You didn't even list LA which is totally understandable. But to give LA some props, I witnessed some amazing community oriented stuff in what they call the "indie improv scene." These are basically shows, festivals, and jams going on all around Los Angeles every night of the week. These consist of passionate UCB /iO /etc students who want to get together and perform as much as possible. And they do. And it's great because it weeds out alot of the stone steppers.

http://wiki.improvresourcecenter.com/in ... os_Angeles

I went to one in Los Feliz called Crashbar that was very welcoming and inclusive to me on my first visit there. Crashbar is a weekly show & jam.


To reiterate what Kevin said: the LA improv institutions are in fact institutions. They are established, unwavering pillars that almost everyone in town has an opinion about.

We will always fail to make a parallel between Austin & Los Angeles because there are scads of shows OUTSIDE the institutions due to years and years of LA students graduating and forming their own brands. We don't count these guys because the institutions overshadow them.

If you didn't know that already, then that's a plus for LA. Now here's a minus:

In some cases you will bump into a student who takes classes at UCB who has never even been in the UCB theater before. On my first trip to UCB theater I was sitting next to a student and it was also HIS first time. Because he had been taking classes somewhere on Santa Monica Blvd. .... without ever having seen a show.

This phenomenon happens because improv is promoted everywhere in Hollywood as a way to become an actor, standup, screenwriter, whatever. (most recently in Tom Lennon & Ben Garant's book about screenwriting) So motivates some people to take improv classes when they want nothing more than an extra blurb on their resume.

Sucks to be put in a class with 6 dudes just looking to pad their resumes. Eesh.

You just have to bear hug the people you come across and hold tight in the fray. Los Angeles can be like swimming in an ocean. So seek out the indie scene and the Crashbar folks to keep your head above water.

I can't speak for Chicago or New York. I'll let people who've lived in those cities speak up.

As for Austin, I feel the city is experiencing a transition where it's set up to be the next big improv city. I view this falling to whether ATX demands to stay close-knit and somewhat controlled. Or whether it widens up to being more like an open market. I'm talking about a guy named Rick moving to ATX tomorrow and opening his own business. If Rick has a solid product, ideally he won't have to rub too many shoulders. The product is tested by the market and the market dictates the success of Rick's business based on demand of his goods and services.

I think what we all want is for it to be an all-inclusive marketplace. A place where people can go off and experiment YET still come back to the center and celebrate improv differences in Austin unity.

That's what's always been encouraged while I've been around. Encouraged verbally at least. The only real factor that could change this environment is supply and demand. Theaters becoming too big and having to please too many students. Commodity and scarcity. But that's all factored in to delivering a product to the marketplace.

And what is the product in the first place? Is it a particular style and brand of comedy or show? Or is the product simply access to the most people? This remains an ongoing debate.

One thing Austin doesn't have enough of-- which the big cities have, is a satisfying stepping stone option. (television and film namely) As mentioned, this is good and bad. Lack of "stepping stone" creates a social dynamic where you're surrounded by people who simply love the process. But it also means many people aren't getting what they want out of it, either creatively or financially. And those people move away.

[PyroDan]

NY and Chicago offer a larger variety of opportunities, yet the talent pool of 1)Improvisors and 2)People taking improv classes are much larger and competitive.

Austin is a superb community to learn, experiment and garner a TON of stage time. Which I feel is the most important part of improv education. 50% of any art is the subjective view of an audience and it's the improviser's task to feel, listen and be responsive to allow this art to be done with connective tissue that gives it the ultimate impact as an art form. There is a reason improv is best described as "you had to be there" in most recollections.

NY is filled to the brim with people hungry and anxious to make it as a performer. While that is good for the overall product, experience and in some cases learning environment, it can have the negative affect of causing some hurtful competition. People trying to "Make It" will often jump ship on a venture to move onto the next better thing, and it can sabotage other projects. This is not a negative assessment really much more a pragmatic overview.

Chicago hails as the birthplace of improv, so there is an industry of it here. Which means there are already components in place that feed off those wanting to learn and perform and like in most industries those who work in it can be trampled beneath it. Most people that come to Chicago do so initially for improv and then may follow where that leads. It's competitive and often nepotistic. I do believe out of these 3 cities, Chicago offers the most employable positions for improvisors, because it is an industry here.

I don't know much about the L.A. scene, Spots hit on that well, and I think Happywaffle responded with the most succinct answer.

I would suggest visiting each option, taking workshops and hanging out with improvisers while you are there, if possible. The best thing about going to a large market are the connections you make.

I returned to Chicago, from Austin because I didn't feel as though I were satisfying my own ambitions. If you are just wanting to improvise, you can't do better than Austin. The real difference in instruction can be pretty obvious between good and bad. I've found bad instruction of any kind, often feels like a pyramid scheme. Most of the good teachers, wherever they live, are all saying the same things, just differentiated in the clarity of your understanding, and possibly dripping with an accent of some sort.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

One thing Austin doesn't have enough of-- which the big cities have, is a satisfying stepping stone option. (television and film namely) As mentioned, this is good and bad. Lack of "stepping stone" creates a social dynamic where you're surrounded by people who simply love the process. But it also means many people aren't getting what they want out of it, either creatively or financially. And those people move away.

yeah, but most of us move back when the other cities are done kicking our asses.

[Asaf]

Hey ImprovWannabe,

I think the answer depends on what your ultimate goal is. If you're ultimate goal is to do and learn as much improv as possible, then any of the three will satisfy that yen. I will say that Austin has two advantages over the other two cities: 1) more immediate and more frequent stage time, and 2) a lower cost of living while you do improv.

If you've got goals beyond improv (writing, acting, etc), the other cities will offer you more. Chicago has a great theater scene, lots of voice over opportunities and commercial opportunities to get SAG credit. New York has Broadway, more and more TV shows being shot and films being shot regularly. The track to stage time at either city will be longer and narrower, but the cities have other things going on in the meantime.

Hope that helps.

[bradisntclever]

There's a whole lot of improv out there. To get started, I'd say narrow down and determine the styles of improv you find most appealing. What do you like to watch and what do you like to perform? Figure out what teams best represent those styles and where members of those teams trained and/or teach classes. See what training centers align the most with your goals and philosophy about improvisation. Visit the theaters you are considering and be sure to check out some shows featuring less-experienced improvisers who have trained there for a few years. It's one thing to see the amazing house teams that have been doing it for years and years, but you'll get a more realistic view of each training center's quality through the work of its recent graduates.

[Spots]

It's one thing to see the amazing house teams that have been doing it for years and years, but you'll get a more realistic view of each training center's quality through the work of its recent graduates.

Seconding Brad: you can save yourself some time & trouble by getting resourceful on youtube. Use search terms like "UCB recital" "io student show" "magnet showcase" "second city graduation" what have you. Find out what each school's student shows are called. "Cage match something something". Brainstorm terms that will yield the types of shows Brad refers to and research the conservatory of your choice without having to visit the city beforehand.

Many student shows aren't recorded so this is bonus research. But these shows will offer a less deceptive perspective of the overall conservatory, as Brad implied.

[jillybee72]

Where do you want to LIVE? Because improv is only the part of it. What's your happiest crowd density? Do you like snow? Do you enjoy fantastic coffee shops? These are all important questions.