UCB TourCo

[shando]

Well, as Jesse pointed out it's not a sales pitch, it's an Austin Twitterer who may or may not have ever seen an Austin show, but likely is a fan of UCB. It's as close to nothing as it could possibly be. It's not a shot across the bow, a UCB-made or UCB-endorsed claim, and is probably better ignored.

Give Samantha some credit. I've seen her at Coldtowne before, and I wouldn't be surprised if she's checked out a few of the other theaters. A quick look at stuff like this (notice there's even a link to these very forums) indicates she's covered the scene.

I definitely don't think it's a shot fired across the bow. She wrote some great coverage of the past few DCMs for Splitsider and probably wanted to help some of her friends she's made in the past sell some tickets.

It's just funny that people don't seem to recognize this name when she's given the scene quite a bit of coverage online.

She's a great credit to the Austin improv scene, and a good writer, too. I took absolutely no issue with anything in that Tweet. And I'm glad the UCBTourco is coming back to town.

[Jon Bolden]

We also have instructors such as Chris Gethard recommending Austin Texas as a cool place to check out classes

Oh man, I love that guy. He's such a solid dude.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

again, i point to the question mark. it's a guarantee, but an inquiry as well. for, surely, what IN life can be "guaranteed"? embrace the paradox...

[Masten]

Ben are we honestly going to approach a community-wide stance on any theater or institution?

To what benefit?

Not at all. I myself have had really positive experiences with UCBers. Will Hines, for example, taught my first ever class, and is a HUGE reason why I do this stuff today. He's a stand-up guy and I'm sure he (and plenty of other UCB vets) would be the first to commend and encourage the work that's being done by the AIC.

But I also know from having spent a fair chunk of time at that theater over the years that there's also a lot of folks who have a very very narrow view of improv both onstage and off. There's room for both things to be true.

Anyway, my point had more to do with Newyorkocentrism generally, something which I can confirm is in no way unique to UCB. Also, that point appears to be moot, since the tweeter turns out to be a) an Austinite, b) by all accounts a perfectly lovely person.

[Spots]

Anyway, my point had more to do with Newyorkocentrism generally, something which I can also confirm is in no way unique to UCB.

I imagine the hardest thing in New York and LA is "the stepping stone mentality" where you step all over your neighbors' toes because you get stuck in your head. About your own path toward fame or honors or success.

Sometimes I see it in Austin between troupes and I step back and say, "woah woah woah, what are we racing towards exactly? Last time I checked Lorne Michaels isn't sitting there in the audience."

And there's obviously always going to be a split between people who want what comes with him being seated there. And people who want to stave that day off indefinitely.

[Masten]

Anyway, my point had more to do with Newyorkocentrism generally, something which I can also confirm is in no way unique to UCB.

I imagine the hardest thing in New York and LA is "the stepping stone mentality" where you step all over your neighbors' toes because you get stuck in your head. About your own path toward fame or honors or success.

Sometimes I see it in Austin between troupes and I step back and say, "woah woah woah, what are we racing towards exactly? Last time I checked Lorne Michaels isn't sitting there in the audience."

Yeah! And the fact that he ISN'T and people here instead tend to do improv for the pure joy of it is a giant part of the reason I moved here.

I have been friends and teammates with folks who are very much on the showbiz treadmill, and a few of them actually thrive on it. I ain't one of those people though.

[Spots]

Luckily Texas legislation is doing everything it can to ensure Austin improv maintains a healthy level of trust!

Our tax incentives are so noncompetitive that most of the film and TV industry had to move out of state. And having a smaller entertainment market means pay rates for actors & comedians are noncompetitive.


There's got to be a happy middle ground.

[happywaffle]

Luckily Texas legislation is doing everything it can to ensure Austin improv maintains a healthy level of trust!

Our tax incentives are so noncompetitive that most of the film and TV industry had to move out of state. And having a smaller entertainment market means pay rates for actors & comedians are noncompetitive.

There's got to be a happy middle ground.

Funny how those Republicans won't cut a bigger tax break. I guess us pinko liberal entertainers don't merit one.

[gethard]

Probably true for the target audience who won't see any other improv all year.

A solid point.

Look, the UCB as an institution has a well-deserved reputation for arrogance. The rank and file of UCB folks even look down their noses at the other two theaters in NYC, let alone improvisers from elsewhere in the country (except for Chicago which is considered a kind of Eden, and L.A., which is where New Yorkers go to get famous after they do a really good Harold). But I'd be willing to bet that no deliberate slight to Austin imps is intended here. I think they're simply unaware that there even IS a scene down here. They probably haven't even bothered to look.

Should they have? Sure. But they aren't talking to us, guys. They don't even know we're here. Not that that's necessarily any better.

Apologies if something like this has been said already, but I didn't want to read pages and pages of this thread at one AM.

My name is Chris Gethard and I found this thread because I got a Google alert on my name. I have a Google alert on my name because I am an arrogant and career driven New Yorker. :)

Ben - I remember you from your time in New York. I just wanted to defend UCB a little bit by saying the stuff you post in the above comment is far more harsh, dismissive, and dealing in broad generalizations than anything I've heard anyone I would consider a core member of the UCB NY community say in my twelve years of participation there.

There is competition between UCB and other local theaters. That's going to happen when businesses that deal with a very specific culture, art form, and product all exist within ten blocks of each other. I don't think members of the UCB community are particularly condescending towards the other theaters, and in fact there's an insane amount of crossover at this point. When the PIT first founded, there was a lot of drama, but that's bound to happen when elder statesmen of a community fragment from the first time and set up competing businesses. I don't think anyone cares about that at this point. I think the general UCB view of the Magnet is that it's a great place with a different vibe and a lot to offer. I think the general UCB view of the PIT is that it's done a good job of setting up its own thing and offering a different scene and community for people who want a different vibe and that a lot of people who are turned off by UCB get a lot of value out of. I am not speaking for everyone, just saying what I see as someone who's been around this theater and community for literally all of his adult life. I think the competing theaters create a lot of playful shit talk, and I think there's just as much if not more coming back at UCB then going towards it. But as a teacher - in fact, as the guy who wrote the first draft of the formalized UCB class curriculum - I can say that there's no actual ill will towards the other theaters in New York, and I personally have great friends who perform at them, students who have been well served to study multiple philosophies, and great performers who have found stage time there when UCB was too crowded to provide it. These are all great things. The NY improv community is a community, and there are separate competing entities within it, sure. But I don't think the average UCBer, from the top down, spends much time looking down their noses at anyone else, and appreciates that there are options for improvisors. I'm a UCB guy to the core, and a lot of times when students have asked me if they should study at other theaters, I might say something like you are playing stressed out and have clearly hit a saturation point where you need to focus on what philosophy you want to zero in on. That's not saying "We're the best, those other theaters suck, drop them." It's saying "Here's the advice I think is best for you." I know personally when I was taking my classes, I hit a wall and took a class at The PIT when Armando was still there because he's a great teacher. No one at UCB begrudged me that - if Armando made me a better improvisor, no one was mad about it.

As far as improv scenes in the other areas of the country go, I can say as a member of the original UCB Tourco cast - not only are we well aware of them, we are completely supportive and jealous of them. In fact, I'm currently on the set of a video where one of the other actors is my friend Neil Casey. I've spent many years doing traveling shows, and Neil and I have done dozens together. Like many New York improvisors right now, I think Neil is probably doing the best improv in NYC. (As a guy who was at one point briefly mentioned in that conversation, and who is ego driven, know that he must be really fucking good if I don't feel pain posting that publicly.) I bet some of you guys are familiar with his work and his name. He's been at the absolute top of his game for a few years and if anyone has a right to be arrogant it's him. If you've seen Neil perform in the past few years, you'd probably say "If I'm gonna be judged, at least it's by a guy that good." You wouldn't even be mad. (Also he asked me to email him the link to this thread and the above paragraph is going to make him shake his head with frustration that I just gushed over him, especially as he now reads this part where I mention that it will be awkward.)

That being said, I was just like "Neil, look at this thread I just found!" And I read your comment back to him, Ben. And his immediate response? He had to go film, but to paraphrase, he said something along the lines of "I can think of ten towns with incredible improv scenes off the top of my head." Then he said "Tell those guys I am a complete supporter of and blown away by the improv in - "

- Austin
- New Orleans
- Chapel Hill
- Toronto
- Boston
- Charleston

He said all six of those cities in about four seconds, then they told him he had to go film.

I would also add that I personally have had great, great experiences with those places as well as the improv scenes in -

- Portland
- Seattle
- Bellingham, WA
- eight million more places I can't remember off the top of my head right now.

and that touring and getting to be a part of the comedy festival at Skidmore College is amazing. That festival is one of the most inspiring things I've ever had the pleasure to stumble upon during my time out on the road.

I started touring in about 2004 and haven't done as much in the past few years, but I can say when I do, there is so much more good improv going on this country. Years ago there was less in general and what did exist was more grim. Now you see so many hard working people developing their own styles and their own scenes. This is not a bad thing that I look down my nose at. It's an inspiring thing - and my time with UCB out on the road makes me feel like maybe I had a small part in helping to Johnny Appleseed this art form that I love more than anything and that has become the base of every professional and most personal decisions I've made since I was 19 years old. I proudly and fiercely consider myself a long form improvisor, and seeing how much long form exists all over the country fills me with a joy and pride, not condescension or scorn. We are winning. We're spreading. The stuff that Del taught all of the people who eventually taught the people who eventually taught us is sticking. And working. And proving itself on every level all over the country. He wasn't wrong, and we weren't wrong for thinking this stuff is worth fighting about on message boards. It's beautiful. I don't take it lightly, nor do I look down my nose at. And I know from being friends with them - the large, large majority of anyone UCB sends out on the road is similarly passionate to me or even moreso.

Sorry to go off and write so much. I'm bored on this set and went back and read the whole thing. I don't think anything you guys said was out of line years ago and would like to think that anyone from UCB who read that stuff would view it as fair and constructive. We know that we are the big bad New Yorkers and we know we need to bring it, especially when we visit towns that have active and thriving improv scenes of their own. There are gigs that you drive 14 hours to and you get there and they said there would be a dressing room and there's not, and you're sitting in a back alley where the workers at the biker bar next door eye you up as they chain smoke. Sometimes it's hard to do your best. Sometimes the venue is great, as the Drafthouse is, but the night before your flight got canceled, and the night before that you got to the college you were performing at and realized you drove six hours for a show no one advertised. Sometimes you're really burnt. Road performers have to summon it and bring it every time, especially when representing a brand that gets as much attention as UCB. We know that. We take it seriously. And if a show slips a bit, we can take that criticism from other improvisors. It fuels us.

And of course, sometimes you get flown first class and fed right and treated well and your show still is not 100%. It's improv. That's part of the risk of doing it, and if we're being honest, it's part of the fun of watching it.

But yeah - I know Samantha from Austin. When I've brought The Chris Gethard Show there, both through the New Movement and as part of SxSw, she's been a huge supporter. It's really nice that she said that about UCB. As other people have said, she clearly had no ill intent or effort to talk bad about the local scene with her post. She is the person who has filled me in the most on the local scene - the improv, stand up, everything that happens in Austin. She spreads word on you guys enough that it reaches me miles away in New York, and it sounds like you guys have it real good there.

But Ben Masten, I really and truly have to say that I think it's unfair that you take a tweet someone completely unassociated with a community made and used it as an opportunity to shit pretty hard on the behavior of individuals in that community, especially when it's phantom behavior that they didn't put out there. And then to get halfway through your post and turn it towards that vibe of "they probably mean no offense at ucb... because they're not even respectful enough to know about us". It's just wrong. It doesn't accurately capture the feelings of myself or the many hard working people who have made the community I have lived and bled and sweated for over many years. Enough so that while sitting here with nothing else to do on this set, I'm willing to register and defend my community.

Seriously, dude - read back what you wrote and honestly tell me that anyone at UCB has ever laced into something you're a part of with as much vitriol, condescension, and generalization as you just did to the community you claim is famous for all of those things. I would be completely shocked if that's gone down.

LA is where NY people go to get famous after they've done one good Harold? Good burn, dude. I've stayed in New York for over a decade, and continue to stay here because it's a city full of creative hard working people who challenge each other. And I'm on a set with Neil, who's another guy who has stuck with this city for a long time even though he could go to LA and be consistently working pretty easily based on his talent alone, let alone the connections he's made by working with other hard working and talented people who now live there. The guy spearheading this is our friend Bobby, another hard working improv guy we came up with who put together a shoot and cast a bunch of his friends from his days of doing improv in it. Everybody who's acted in this thing over the past few days is an improvisor, because he's allowed the fact that he organized this shoot where people get paid a tiny bit to look out for his improv friends. That level of careerism sounds really detrimental to the ideas of improv, huh?

Maybe NY people move to LA not to chase fame, but because they are talented people who think they have a chance at making their living solely through doing what they love. Trying to get on a TV show doesn't mean you are a sellout who never knew the true meaning of improv - it means that you have been empowered enough through this art form we all practice and defend and spread the oral traditions of, to the point that your job might be built on the foundation of it. Your job might come about because you dedicated yourself hard enough to improv. That's a victory. It's not something worth tearing apart whole cities and coasts for in a public forum, especially when NO ONE FROM THE PLACES YOU'RE ATTACKING ACTUALLY SAID THE THING THAT YOU CHOSE TO USE AS THE REASON TO TEAR THEM APART.

And know, before this turns into 20 more pages of discussion - the kids working at UCB NY these days (I assume this is true in LA as well, but I'm not there, and since I'm not there I don't want to speak to things I don't see up front and personal) are hard working kids who love this shit. They really, really do - just as much as I did when I started at the age of 19. There is so much love for it, and people come here because it's a challenging, competitive environment where they have an opportunity to learn in a culture where other driven people who love it look to be at their best. It's not for everyone, and it leads to competition and aggression, sure. I'm not an idiot who doesn't see that, and I'm not a liar who doesn't recognize it. It is not for everybody! But it is here and it is a good community, and like I said - on a day when I'm sitting around and bored, I feel it necessary to defend and represent my community when some unfair things are being said about it.

Thanks for your time - the last thing I want to do is set off a firestorm. I don't want this to become a thing that shows up on blogs or that leads to 150 posts. I just want to say - it's a little ridiculous to start lacing into UCB when there's no real reason for it!

And I saw some people defending us, and that's great! Thank you! Ben, you even talked so kindly about Will Hines, and I think he's a great example of an NY improvisor who has dedicated himself hard to this thing we love. I just feel like that first post brings up so many knocks on our community that I've never felt are as earned as people seem to think, so I wanted to jump on and give you the perspective on that all from somebody who's been at UCB NY forever.

Much love to Austin. The only city I'd live in besides New York, unless of course I have to go to LA to work at any point in my life. I love coming through and doing shows at the New Movement. Chris Trew has always taken care of The Chris Gethard Show crew when we come through town. I've talked with Arthur at Coldtowne about doing workshops at some point, but it's never worked out when I'm in town. I am thoroughly impressed and very aware of your improv community. You guys do great work. Your city is built for improv to be thriving and innovative. I am so, so happy that it exists. I like knowing that when I'm there, if I get my wallet stolen and no one will help me, I can wander up that hill to The New Movement and someone will get my back because we're all a part of this culture.

Come to New York and check out UCB if you get a chance. Tell me if you really think our community is full of condescending shitbags after hanging out and seeing a few shows over a week at our theater. Say hi to me when you're there and tell me you read my way too long and melodramatic post on the internet.

Much love to you all,

Chris Gethard

[happywaffle]

Short response to a long post: thanks for writing in, Chris.

[Jessica]

Dang, now I really want to go to NY to see a UCB show. Thanks for responding Chris.

[Masten]

Chris-

A big reason I backed off my original post later in this thread, is because I took a second to think, and I realized that much of what you eventually came over to say is correct, and that my intent was not to come off as combatively as I originally did, for which I apologize.

I DO think that there is, unfortunately, still a tendency for members of ALL the theaters in NY to get involved in weird tribal bullshit, more than any of members of the community-from any theater- would care to admit. And it's a damn shame.

However, I certainly don't mean to jump into that particular pool, or get involved in resuscitating some inter-theater rivalry, especially given that I don't even live in NYC anymore. Clearly, that's exactly what I did, and I apologize for that too.

As far as the NYC vs everywhere else dynamic, I'm certainly glad to hear that you guys are both conscious and appreciative of what's going on out there. My negative impressions there came from the fact that after my initial trips down here to Austin some years ago, I attempted to encourage New York improvisers from all three theaters to visit, come to festivals here, etc. until I was blue in the face, and unfortunately received some very dismissive responses.

None of those conversations were at the institutional level though, so I didn't mean to imply that UCB (or the Magnet, or the PIT) as an institution doesn't give a shit about other cities improv scenes. I just meant that New Yorkers as people tend to have regional tunnel vision, which over the years I've been as guilty of as anyone.

Anyway, that all made sense to ME in my head, but since the internet doesn't allow people to read my mind, I should have been less flip and cranky and more clear. I'm a great admirer of a lot of the work UCB has done over the years, and it is still a very big piece of my history as an improv geek, even though I eventually made my home elsewhere. I would not be doing this at all if I hadn't taken UCB classes way back when, and my life would be much poorer for it.

The next time you're in town, if you're interested, I'd love to buy you a beer and nerd out on all things 'prov related.

-Ben

[kbadr]

The next time you're in town, if you're interested, I'd love to buy you a beer and nerd out on all things 'prov related.

The Austin Improv motto, if ever there was one.

[Masten]

Also, by the way, I don't mean to imply that folks who take off to LA are surrendering their artistic purity, or anything like that. I just have about zero interest in it myself. I tried to get on that track for a while, and the amount of work and dedication it takes to successfully make a career of this stuff is just plain superhuman. So I stopped. More power to those who can pull it off, though.

[Masten]

Oh and, lastly, I'll repost this from my facebook:

Also, I have no beef with Samantha whatsoever. I assumed that the tweet had been written by some nameless PR flak who knew nothing about improv from ANY theater.

Obviously not the case.