I notice many people say, "When the lights come up, [suggestion]" which makes me think they don't trust that the tech knows to put in a blackout after the suggestion. Also sometimes they wave the lights down instead of letting the tech call the blackout.
I will say my bias is to trust the Tech. And if they make mistakes, they make mistakes; we all do, it's part of the spirit of improv. We're lucky in Minneapolis that there are people who consistently tech shows, so they've gotten pretty good at pulling the blackouts and adding sound effects or underscoring. Also, they're all improvisors, so they can be trusted to find a good edit.
Do you trust your Tech?
Why or why not?
=====
I'm not trying to start a fight, I just want to have an improv conversation going!!
Do you trust your tech?
Discussion of the art and craft of improvisation.
Moderators: arclight, happywaffle, bradisntclever
-
- kaci_beeler Offline
- Posts: 2151
- Joined: September 4th, 2005, 10:27 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
Do I trust my tech?
Depends on the tech people and venue.
At festivals, I don't trust the tech. PGraph has learned the hard way countless times that tech will not pull the lights when we wish them to be pulled. We like the show to end at the end of the story, not at the end of a button. For example, at CIF this year we had a very experienced tech crew in the Second City Skybox that did not follow our wishes on letting us call our own lights after a 5-min warning bump.
For both of our shows they pulled the lights 2-3 min early.
After the first time it happened, we called it to the tech's attention and they said it wouldn't happen again. It was a critical error, them calling the show early. It was ERIS 2035 and we were about to have a big reveal that would explain a lot of what had happened in the last 35 or so minutes, but then before it could happen, someone said something that got a laugh and BAM - blackout, rap music, MOOD KILLER. We would never, ever choose to end the show that way. They apologized when we complained and we explained our wishes again.
But then the next night, they called the show before a very apparent ending (to me, at least), the kiss (in a Screwball comedy). Because we knew it might happen, we went ahead and kept going, and they faded the lights back up (so we were able to compromise on our ending).
We checked our timer and we weren't over time, either show. The guy just wasn't used to our type of ending, I guess, and didn't TRUST us that we knew how to end it.
We can't expect that people will know what we like, or will be paying enough attention to help us. We can only trust ourselves onstage when we're off somewhere new. We can roll with a lot (random sound effects, people talking from the audience, cell phone rings, etc), but one thing I don't like to just roll with is a missed ending in a narrative show. To devalue that would be to devalue the whole process of improvising an entire story.
(you can see I'm still pissed about the CIF thing, even though it was 8 months ago...)
That said...
In the shows I direct, I trust the tech a lot. They get a lot of free reign because they deserve it. They work hard and they're a big part of the experience. Michael Yew was the technical director for Batman and Dickens this year and I trusted his decisions completely. We worked together on figuring out the tone of the scoring, key sound bites, etc, but I rarely needed to call for anything from the stage.
When PGraph did ERIS 2035, which had more complicated tech for us than usual, we worked with Neal Tibrewala in rehearsals and throughout the shows in Austin. He was great at getting a feel for the tone and endings, and was key in helping us create the mood. I definitely trusted him in the tech booth.
For the regular weekly shows at The Hideout, we utilize a lot of interns. Because of this, we're often training new people. If they're very new, saying, "when the lights come up..." is often an easy and helpful reminder of what to do next, and not very distracting to the audience.
I would rather be heavy-handed and guide people through the key parts of tech that encourage audience energy-building and enjoyment (lights down, upbeat music up loud, lights fade up, music fade down) and then trust them to be playful and make mistakes during the improvised part of the show.
I guess for me, I get really bothered by sloppy tech. I think it sets a weird vibe in the room and makes the audience feel unsure of what they're about to see.
I think we have a lot of amazing tech people in Austin, so I often don't worry about it, but I also don't see any problem with asking for things from the stage or calling my own cues.
Ideally, you clearly communicate with the people doing tech before every show. I think it's shitty and unfair when the tech isn't given a heads up about the group they're going to do tech for and then they get guff when they're too hands on.
It's your show, if you don't take steps to communicate what you want, it's your fault if it doesn't go the way you'd like.
Depends on the tech people and venue.
At festivals, I don't trust the tech. PGraph has learned the hard way countless times that tech will not pull the lights when we wish them to be pulled. We like the show to end at the end of the story, not at the end of a button. For example, at CIF this year we had a very experienced tech crew in the Second City Skybox that did not follow our wishes on letting us call our own lights after a 5-min warning bump.
For both of our shows they pulled the lights 2-3 min early.
After the first time it happened, we called it to the tech's attention and they said it wouldn't happen again. It was a critical error, them calling the show early. It was ERIS 2035 and we were about to have a big reveal that would explain a lot of what had happened in the last 35 or so minutes, but then before it could happen, someone said something that got a laugh and BAM - blackout, rap music, MOOD KILLER. We would never, ever choose to end the show that way. They apologized when we complained and we explained our wishes again.
But then the next night, they called the show before a very apparent ending (to me, at least), the kiss (in a Screwball comedy). Because we knew it might happen, we went ahead and kept going, and they faded the lights back up (so we were able to compromise on our ending).
We checked our timer and we weren't over time, either show. The guy just wasn't used to our type of ending, I guess, and didn't TRUST us that we knew how to end it.
We can't expect that people will know what we like, or will be paying enough attention to help us. We can only trust ourselves onstage when we're off somewhere new. We can roll with a lot (random sound effects, people talking from the audience, cell phone rings, etc), but one thing I don't like to just roll with is a missed ending in a narrative show. To devalue that would be to devalue the whole process of improvising an entire story.
(you can see I'm still pissed about the CIF thing, even though it was 8 months ago...)
That said...
In the shows I direct, I trust the tech a lot. They get a lot of free reign because they deserve it. They work hard and they're a big part of the experience. Michael Yew was the technical director for Batman and Dickens this year and I trusted his decisions completely. We worked together on figuring out the tone of the scoring, key sound bites, etc, but I rarely needed to call for anything from the stage.
When PGraph did ERIS 2035, which had more complicated tech for us than usual, we worked with Neal Tibrewala in rehearsals and throughout the shows in Austin. He was great at getting a feel for the tone and endings, and was key in helping us create the mood. I definitely trusted him in the tech booth.
For the regular weekly shows at The Hideout, we utilize a lot of interns. Because of this, we're often training new people. If they're very new, saying, "when the lights come up..." is often an easy and helpful reminder of what to do next, and not very distracting to the audience.
I would rather be heavy-handed and guide people through the key parts of tech that encourage audience energy-building and enjoyment (lights down, upbeat music up loud, lights fade up, music fade down) and then trust them to be playful and make mistakes during the improvised part of the show.
I guess for me, I get really bothered by sloppy tech. I think it sets a weird vibe in the room and makes the audience feel unsure of what they're about to see.
I think we have a lot of amazing tech people in Austin, so I often don't worry about it, but I also don't see any problem with asking for things from the stage or calling my own cues.
Ideally, you clearly communicate with the people doing tech before every show. I think it's shitty and unfair when the tech isn't given a heads up about the group they're going to do tech for and then they get guff when they're too hands on.
It's your show, if you don't take steps to communicate what you want, it's your fault if it doesn't go the way you'd like.
If anyone says no, it means I'm not doing my job correctly.
I want to think of tech as "the Fifth Beatle": their job is more than just to bring the lights up and down, but help the troupe put on a good show. Sure, bringing the lights up and down can be enough for the troupe to put on a good show, but there's an art to timing it.
I think the real trust issues come in when shows are either tech heavy or a troupe gives full control to the booth, because it takes a lot of discipline to play what at the right time. My general rule is to never take the scene out of the troupe's/show's hands, and even then, I will sometimes worry whether I should play something or let the troupe go on by themselves (and 75% of the time, I let them go by themselves). Luckily, I've only seen one tech person disobey the "don't take the show out of the troupe's hands" guideline, but he was the person that called my attention to it in the first place.
I want to think of tech as "the Fifth Beatle": their job is more than just to bring the lights up and down, but help the troupe put on a good show. Sure, bringing the lights up and down can be enough for the troupe to put on a good show, but there's an art to timing it.
I think the real trust issues come in when shows are either tech heavy or a troupe gives full control to the booth, because it takes a lot of discipline to play what at the right time. My general rule is to never take the scene out of the troupe's/show's hands, and even then, I will sometimes worry whether I should play something or let the troupe go on by themselves (and 75% of the time, I let them go by themselves). Luckily, I've only seen one tech person disobey the "don't take the show out of the troupe's hands" guideline, but he was the person that called my attention to it in the first place.
-New and improved for 2014: coming to a theater near you!
-Advice-A-Day: Daily advice on everything.
-Advice-A-Day: Daily advice on everything.
-
- Marc Majcher Offline
- Posts: 1621
- Joined: January 24th, 2006, 12:40 am
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
I think one challenge in Austin is that we have a lot of different kinds of improv here, and a corresponding range of tech styles. Throw in the fact that tech people are often students or interns with not a lot of experience with either the board or different types of improv, and the answer winds up being no, unless I've worked with them. People who are used to groups calling their own outs are not going to be adept at calling the end of the show. People who are used to narrative are going to be looking for a resolution that isn't necessarily coming (the opposite of the problem Kaci described above). People who have been encouraged to be proactive in the tech booth sometimes don't seem to understand "Lights up, lights down, no sound cues, no light cues." On more than one occasion I've told this to an inexperienced tech person and gotten light cues and even music, so I'm pretty adamant about it now unless I already know and trust the tech person.
(Sidebar: I completely get the idea that a tech person is like another improviser. That's exactly why they shouldn't be making offers unless specifically asked to do so. You wouldn't walk onstage in the middle of someone else's show and start doing spacework, so how are light and sound offers any different? I understand that it's different for a show that's not a working ensemble, like Maestro or a jam, but in general If I didn't see you at rehearsal, I don't want you in my show. Sorry.)
(Sidebar: I completely get the idea that a tech person is like another improviser. That's exactly why they shouldn't be making offers unless specifically asked to do so. You wouldn't walk onstage in the middle of someone else's show and start doing spacework, so how are light and sound offers any different? I understand that it's different for a show that's not a working ensemble, like Maestro or a jam, but in general If I didn't see you at rehearsal, I don't want you in my show. Sorry.)
"I'm not a real aspirational cat."
-- TJ Jagodowski
-- TJ Jagodowski
I'm with Marc, I've never really given much thought that "when the lights come up..." means something, just a reflex. For a show like Batman, the experience was awesomely enhanced by the tech side, but, importantly, those guys came to rehearsals and were an equal part of the whole process, so yeah it was easy to trust them, because everyone was on the same page. It's certainly different for a troupe to throw trust at a tech person they've never met. I find that most of the time I'll call the end of a show myself, even though a very able-bodied tech person was right there with me, and would have made the call anyway. So I guess I have to say that my natural tendency is not to trust tech with control of my show. I've never really considered it in terms of trust, but it's interesting, something I'll keep in mind.
The first few times I did tech, I was really nervous about ruining someone else's show, so I'm probably projecting my experience and assuming that tech doesn't really want an active role in my show.
The first few times I did tech, I was really nervous about ruining someone else's show, so I'm probably projecting my experience and assuming that tech doesn't really want an active role in my show.
"Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana"
-
- Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell Offline
- Posts: 4215
- Joined: March 17th, 2006, 5:50 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
agree with Marc on "when the lights come up." i've always seen it as a ritual cue for the audience. sort of like at the movie theatre..."and now your feature presentation." it serves to shift the focus. and i think in improv, where we don't often have a curtain to lift or costumes and scenery to differentiate between the hosting section and the performance section, having a clearly delineated segue between those realities can be helpful.
though i've also done shows, where I or someone else will say that, and then the lights won't go down for several beats...so i don't know if saying it or not saying it would've made any difference.
though i've also done shows, where I or someone else will say that, and then the lights won't go down for several beats...so i don't know if saying it or not saying it would've made any difference.
Sweetness Prevails.
-the Reverend
-the Reverend
Even if "when the lights come up" is a ritual for the audience, there are other examples that fit into what Jill is saying. The ubiquitous "waving the lights down" action being one of them.
That one is clearly just a signal for the tech booth and not for the audience's benefit. When used in a show like Maestro is clearly to help the show by making sure the lights come down when they should.
The issue of trust or not trust comes in if/when the direction to the booth is "only" pull the lights when the hand waves, and not also at their own discretion.
If both the director, the improvisors, and the booth all have the freedom to call the scene, then the hand-wave isn't a matter of trust, but of communication. The more we're all able to communicate, the better the show will be.
In general, in Austin, tech isn't very 'trusted', merely because there is so little experience. When first starting out it's all about how to run the equipment properly, so much so that it's hard to pay attention to the show. It takes a *very* long time to have everything feel second nature enough that you can be fully in support of the show.
That one is clearly just a signal for the tech booth and not for the audience's benefit. When used in a show like Maestro is clearly to help the show by making sure the lights come down when they should.
The issue of trust or not trust comes in if/when the direction to the booth is "only" pull the lights when the hand waves, and not also at their own discretion.
If both the director, the improvisors, and the booth all have the freedom to call the scene, then the hand-wave isn't a matter of trust, but of communication. The more we're all able to communicate, the better the show will be.
In general, in Austin, tech isn't very 'trusted', merely because there is so little experience. When first starting out it's all about how to run the equipment properly, so much so that it's hard to pay attention to the show. It takes a *very* long time to have everything feel second nature enough that you can be fully in support of the show.
- Neal
When PGraph's doing an open-ended show (AKA not a specific format beyond "narrative") we give the tech booth complete free reign, regardless of their experience level. For The Hideout that means lights, colors, sound effects and music.
If they're super new, I like to tell them that they should make at least 2 mistakes during the show, or they're not doing their job. That's either a Johnstone thing, or just very Johnstonian in spirit.
Having the element of the tech booth making those offers helps to keep things fresh and surprising.
And yeah, as Kaci said at great length, we like to call the end to shows ourselves, regardless of who is in the tech booth. Endings to stories are tricky beasts sometimes.
The most important thing is communication. The first thing a troupe should do when arriving for a show is to chat with the tech folk about expectations, covering at least the following questions:
* Do you want anything during the show in the way of lights or music?
* If so, what? How active should tech be and how free should they be to act on their own initiative?
* Do you want a warning bump of the lights? If so, how close to the end?
* Do you want to call your own show or should tech pull the lights?
If they're super new, I like to tell them that they should make at least 2 mistakes during the show, or they're not doing their job. That's either a Johnstone thing, or just very Johnstonian in spirit.
Having the element of the tech booth making those offers helps to keep things fresh and surprising.
And yeah, as Kaci said at great length, we like to call the end to shows ourselves, regardless of who is in the tech booth. Endings to stories are tricky beasts sometimes.
The most important thing is communication. The first thing a troupe should do when arriving for a show is to chat with the tech folk about expectations, covering at least the following questions:
* Do you want anything during the show in the way of lights or music?
* If so, what? How active should tech be and how free should they be to act on their own initiative?
* Do you want a warning bump of the lights? If so, how close to the end?
* Do you want to call your own show or should tech pull the lights?
PGraph plays every Thursday at 8pm! https://www.hideouttheatre.com/shows/pgraph/
So I house-manage the Thursday Threefer at the Hideout and sometimes it gets a bit tricky with tech. For one, there's a weekly turn-over of troupes - each with their different technical needs. And then there's a pretty high turn-over of tech interns as well.
So I've started keeping brand-new tech interns for 5-10 minutes after the show to help them learn how to transition between troupes, get music levels under control, learn how long to black-out, etc. I feel like these are the absolute basics that every tech person should know, and when they don't know them they are very nervous and anxious. When they do know them, they are MUCH more confident to try more things throughout the shows.
Also - I've only been house-managing for a year, but during that time I've seen more and more troupes tell the tech crew just to do lights up and lights down, while just a year ago at least half would invite the tech crew to "play" with them by using dramatic lighting or sound effects. I don't know if it's because of a series of bad experiences, but that's just the trend I've noticed. Personally, I'm not a big fan of sound effects because it can so easily be overdone, but dramatic lighting? hell yeah! I think in the last few months I've only had 2 troupes give the green light to light/sound effects.
So I've started keeping brand-new tech interns for 5-10 minutes after the show to help them learn how to transition between troupes, get music levels under control, learn how long to black-out, etc. I feel like these are the absolute basics that every tech person should know, and when they don't know them they are very nervous and anxious. When they do know them, they are MUCH more confident to try more things throughout the shows.
Also - I've only been house-managing for a year, but during that time I've seen more and more troupes tell the tech crew just to do lights up and lights down, while just a year ago at least half would invite the tech crew to "play" with them by using dramatic lighting or sound effects. I don't know if it's because of a series of bad experiences, but that's just the trend I've noticed. Personally, I'm not a big fan of sound effects because it can so easily be overdone, but dramatic lighting? hell yeah! I think in the last few months I've only had 2 troupes give the green light to light/sound effects.
I agree with this.I completely get the idea that a tech person is like another improviser. That's exactly why they shouldn't be making offers unless specifically asked to do so. You wouldn't walk onstage in the middle of someone else's show and start doing spacework, so how are light and sound offers any different?
If my group hasn't rehearsed with a tech and we say 'lights up, lights down, nothing else' then that's all we want. No sound, no lights, nothing. As part of some groups that don't use much tech, it can be extremely distracting and jarring to suddenly hear music/sounds or be in a spotlight when you're not expecting it.
Don't get me wrong - as part of some shows that do rehearse with a tech, I love a good tech that has rehearsed with the group/show, and knows the style, structure and goals. Then I want them to be involved and their contribution is very affecting. But only if they've been at rehearsal and integrated into the group.
Totally. If you ask for something particular and the tech doesn't give it to you, that's ridiculous.ejbrammer wrote: If my group hasn't rehearsed with a tech and we say 'lights up, lights down, nothing else' then that's all we want.
PGraph plays every Thursday at 8pm! https://www.hideouttheatre.com/shows/pgraph/
Roy Janik wrote:Totally. If you ask for something particular and the tech doesn't give it to you, that's ridiculous.ejbrammer wrote: If my group hasn't rehearsed with a tech and we say 'lights up, lights down, nothing else' then that's all we want.
Point me in the direction of these people. Their groins have a meeting with my fist and/or boot.ratliff wrote:People who have been encouraged to be proactive in the tech booth sometimes don't seem to understand "Lights up, lights down, no sound cues, no light cues." On more than one occasion I've told this to an inexperienced tech person and gotten light cues and even music, so I'm pretty adamant about it now unless I already know and trust the tech person.
As much as I love elaborate tech, if a troupe says, "No cues," HONOR THAT!!!
-New and improved for 2014: coming to a theater near you!
-Advice-A-Day: Daily advice on everything.
-Advice-A-Day: Daily advice on everything.
-
- Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell Offline
- Posts: 4215
- Joined: March 17th, 2006, 5:50 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
with a couple of troupes i've been in, i tell the booth "play with us. if you see a place to add lights or sound, feel free." but i'm starting to do this more and more with tech i know and trust (or at least know has some experience), and less and less if they're an unknown to me. i've had a few instances of that "play with us" policy coming back to bite us in the ass with someone who doesn't know the board well enough. you have to know the instrument to play with it.
Sweetness Prevails.
-the Reverend
-the Reverend