Are You an Artist?

[Pdyx]

Do you consider yourself an artist?

Why or why not?

What are some of your struggles with being an artist?

Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?

How do you reconcile being an artist with having a day job?

How do you reconcile being an artist with having a relationship/family?

I've been struggling with some of these questions my entire adult life, and recently in the past few days, and I'm curious about how others approach them.

I probably posted this in the wrong section, my apologies.

[ratliff]

A couple of years ago, I decided to change the way I viewed my life. Instead of seeing my art as a way to unwind after my day job, I started thinking of my day job as a way to support my art. In short, I stopped thinking of myself as someone who dabbled in the arts and started thinking of myself as an artist.

I didn't set any concrete goals about changing the amount of time I spent on creative work; I just started thinking about it differently.

Within a year, I had started spending a LOT more time on my creative pursuits. Everything opened up and started to flow in ways it hadn't before.

It could be pure coincidence. Proximity is not causality. But I mention this because I think that (a) there's a lot of power in calling yourself an artist and (b) there's a lot of resistance to calling yourself an artist, particularly when it comes to improv.

I understand the resistance, particularly among people who don't come from a theater background. I had this exact conversation with an improviser I respect a lot, and he's of the opinion that saying you're creating art makes it more likely that your work will be pretentious and not entertaining to the audience.

I think he's right, that's a danger. And if your sole purpose is to make funny comedy, it's a danger worth avoiding, because there's no discernible payoff to treating what you do as art.

However, if your goals are more complex than just getting laughs, you may be making art. And if you are, I think you hobble yourself by pretending you're not. Trying to make art while avoiding anything that looks like it might be art may feel less pretentious, but really I think it's just a way to protect yourself from embarrassment. It may be less pretentious, but it's often also less ambitious, less developed, less interesting, and, yes, less entertaining than work that somebody was willing to risk looking stupid to make.

I think the exact improv analogy is group mind. I think that group mind is a spiritual state that's larger than the collective intelligence of the group. I also think that you can access it even if everyone in the group is a scientific fundamentalist who doesn't believe in anything of the kind. But you're more likely to access it if you believe it exists and are trying to make yourself available to it.

Same thing with art. People who are just trying to excel at their craft stumble into making art all the time. But I think you're more likely to make it when you admit that's what you're doing.

As far as making a living off it, I don't really want to. I decided a long time ago that I would rather work a day job and be able to make decisions about my art based solely on creative considerations than have to take money into account. I'm deeply grateful to my friends who run theaters in town, because without them I'd have nowhere to do what I do ... and I also see how often they have to balance non-artistic considerations to keep doing what they do. I think some people are better at compartmentalizing those aspects, but I'm not. In order to get worthwhile work done, I have to clear a space for it first.

[mpbrockman]

Well, musicians are artists in most people's books so I'll take a stab at this because it's a pet peeve of mine.

In short my answer to your first question is no. Craftsman, technician, even artisan (in it's original sense as a skilled workman) are terms I can use to describe myself with a sense of accuracy. "Artist" is a word I identify with Edison's "1% inspiration" and thus misses the mark. It also conjures up images of those people who come up and say things like "You're so talented, I could never do that" as if your skill at anything leaped fully formed like Athena from Zeus' head. Never mind the years and sacrifice you put into learning your craft.

Ratliff once posted something like this somewhere using better terms, but I trust my point is clear.

Struggles? Number one - money. Number two - rabid perfectionism that sometimes keeps me from finishing things.

Yes, I make my living with music. Sometimes it ain't pretty. Sometimes you whore yourself out to the lowest common denominator because that what brings in the cash. I just finished a month abroad playing requests for cover tunes (yep, "Brown-Eyed Girl", "Piano Man" & "Don't Stop Believin'" 2 or 3 times a night). I've written/produced some absolute crap I wouldn't sign my worst enemy's name to because that's what the client wanted. Still, my worst days making music beat 8 hours at just about any day job I've ever held.

Reconcile with having a family/relationship? Well, it helps to have an understanding partner. Nevertheless, music helps keep me psychologically healthy - thus a better partner. The only real conflict here is money (especially if you have a family). You keep as many balls in the air as possible (perform, teach, work-for-hire, whatever else you can dig up) and be willing to sell your skills to the highest bidder. If you feel this attitude offends your "artistic integrity". Get a day job and keep your "art" as a serious hobby.

Yikes - did that all sound really harsh?

I guess to put some of that into perspective I'll add this: being a musician has always been less of something I wanted to do than something I was driven (or I suppose you could use the word "had") to do. There have been some bitter reality pills to swallow - but that's just the way of the world. Music makes my life better and brighter and I wouldn't trade it for six figures and a corner office on a bet.

EDIT: and just look who xposted me wouldja?

[ratliff]

Not to get off topic, but I have to second Brockman's irritation with people who say "I could never do that," as though you were sprinkled with fairy dust at birth and it's not a lot of fucking work to master even the basics of any (sorry, MB) art.

The one art people don't treat this way is writing, which apparently everyone thinks s/he could do. Stephen King got so tired of people saying, "I've always wanted to write" that he started answering, "Yeah, I've always wanted to be a brain surgeon."

[hujhax]

Hmm. I don't say "I am an artist," but I pretty much avoid all statements like that. They feel limiting to me somehow. Similarly, if somebody asks me what I do for a living, I'm careful to say "I program computers" rather than "I am a programmer".

(This has been another installment of "Peter gets caught up in pointless semantics.")



--
peter rogers @ work | http://hujhax.livejournal.com

Stand-up comics feel compelled to make you laugh. They're like an obnoxious uncle, with better material.
      -- Roger Ebert, reviewing Funny People

[ratliff]

Peter, would you be willing to say "I make art"?

[mpbrockman]

Peter, would you be willing to say "I make art"?

Had you directed that question at me I would have answered, "When I'm really lucky sometimes I make something that is greater than the sum of its parts". Maybe that is art.

But since you asked Peter...

[ratliff]

Good answer, Brockman!

I seem to have committed myself to responsibility for every other post on this thread ....

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

i absolutely consider myself an artist. i've rarely considered myself anything but (or variants...performer, storyteller, pretentious jackass, etc.). now, i do more artistically than only improv so perhaps that colors my thinking. but improv is art to me, and i do it, so even just narrowed down to this one particular medium, i am an artist.

is that pretentious? probably. but as Ratliff stated above, my capacity for creativity and inspiration increased hugely once i stopped worrying about whether people thought i was pretentious or not.

the primary struggle i have is financial. i've paid my bills and my rent with artistic endeavours from time to time, but i have yet to make a living at it. i would LOVE to do that, but i fear i lack the tenacity (the "killer instinct" as my father calls it). and maybe it's more the fear than the lack that's holding me back, but there you have it. i do my day job, get my paycheck and fill in the time around it with my improv, acting and writing. when i was in Los Angeles trying to "make it," i had a few day jobs here and there, but mostly focused on trying to make a living at acting (auditions, workshops, etc.) and spent a great deal of my time not doing much of anything. i much prefer the stresses and frustrations i have now (for the moment) to the ones i had out there. neither situation is ideal, but this one is more fulfilling in the now. and i think if you want to pursue it seriously, that flexibility to recognize that shift in priorities is crucial.

relationships can be difficult. in the short term, i find it less directly a problem...but having that degree of intensity and sensitivity that makes me want to create and express can prove problematic at the beginning of a relationship or dating situation. they're usually fantastic, but short lived. most of my relationships have averaged around 1-3 months. so, yeah, i'm trying to master the "slow burn" at the beginning. my longest relationship, a year and a half, had a number of problems throughout, but there was definitely an issue around my artistic pursuits and when i was going to get a "real job" and if i'd be able to help support us if things progressed to that level (which they nearly did). at the time it felt like she was just being unsupportive and "not believing in me," but looking back now...she was very career minded and had a plan she was on pursuing her own passion in education, whereas i just had this nebulous notion of "making it." so, again, it comes down to that notion of balancing priorities. you can make your art, but you also have to make sure the water's running and the lights turn on.

i've always struggled with finding that balance, but i think it's key...most of the "artists" i know are either struggling and going broke and breaking themselves against their dreams while everything else in their life suffers, or get fed up with that and give up entirely, and swing the pendulum to the full on day job settled down life. and i don't think it has to be an either/or situation. at least, i hope it's not.

(sorry to ramble...i spend a lot of my time thinking about this too. )

[Roy Janik]

Yep, I consider myself an artist.

[Andrew Pish]

As an actor/improviser, I think of myself as an artist, from the basic understanding that the acting and improv that I do I consider performing arts. But I wouldn't walk around and tell people I'm an artist. That's for me, internally. I don't think it's pretentious to believe that about yourself, and in fact, I think it's very necessary to believe that at your core. But it does roll a little pretentious off the tongue when you tell people that you're an artist. I would instead tell people I'm an actor and improviser.

As for relationships, I had one relationship go sour on several occasions because I was told that I was soooo driven (about performing) that I didn't care about anything else. Of course that was an exaggeration of the situation, but I think it's true that if you want to be a professional in the artistic sphere, you're going to have to sacrifice a lot of time. And like Brockman said, that's going to take someone who's very understanding.

I do, eventually, want to make a living off of performing. And I think a very big part of that is taking yourself seriously and considering yourself a professional. If you don't carry yourself as a professional, how will others? Along with that, I'm a very big believer in "fake it 'till you make it." I'm heavily in the fake it stage for right now, and I use that as inspiration to become better. And even though I know that I'm not the best, I don't let that effect my work. I stay as confident as possible.

I think a very big part about taking the steps to embody becoming a professional "artist" (whatever that means to you) is to not be afraid to fail. This all goes back to improv failure bows, oh the relevance. I have to be willing, myself, to fail at auditions and to fail on stage to be able to make the progress that I want to make. But beyond that, I have to be willing to fail financially and emotionally. TO emphasize my point, read this quote from my favorite movie, Rocky IV:

Adrian: It's suicide. You've seen him, you know how strong he is. You can't win!
Rocky: Oh, Adrian. Adrian always tells the truth. No, maybe I can't win. Maybe the only thing I can do is just take everything he's got. But to beat me, he's going to have to kill me. And to kill me, he's gonna have to have the heart to stand in front of me. And to do that, he's got to be willing to die himself. I don't know if he's ready to do that. I don't know.

Rocky's a fighter, it's what he does, and he's willing to die for that. Going the professional route is going to take sacrifice. How much are you willing to sacrifice?

As for money, I have no idea how that's going to pan out. That'll bite me in the ass eventually.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

i'm not willing to sacrifice Carl Weathers. not again. i know that much. sigh...

[valetoile]

i think of myself as a creator more than an artist- i create things, in all kinds of ways. I don't think I'd like to make a living off performing- a job is a job, and when what you love becomes your job, it has all the job things that go with it. I'd like to break even on doing improv and traveling, but it's nice to have a job that's not too unpleasant, pays enough to keep you alive, and doesn't require much of your heart and soul. But I'm also starting a business, which is it's own beast, and another type of creation. I have a lot of things that I love to do, and as long as I can keep doing them, I will be happy.

[PyroDan]

Do you consider yourself an artist?
I do art, but I feel I shouldn't call myself an artist, without doing it proficiently, or at the very least more often.

Why or why not?
I like to play basketball, but no longer consider myself an athlete.

What are some of your struggles with being an artist?
I seem to only create satisfying art when I am in a depressed mood, or when terrible things are happening in my life.

Do you want to be (or are you) a commercial artist (someone who makes a living or some money, from their art)?
I would love to, and have occasionally made a few dollars here and there, but since I am not consistent in my output, I couldn't imagine doing it for a living.

How do you reconcile being an artist with having a day job?
Like Ratliff, I consider my 'jobs' as a subsidy for anything I want to do.

How do you reconcile being an artist with having a relationship/family?
That is hard, as my art has been a selfish retreat for the most part. As a child I would paint or draw with my grandmother. As a father, one of my favorite things is to create with my daughter, who aspires to be an artist as an adult, and she is very good. Given that my father didn't encourage my artistic pursuits, I totally support hers.

[scook]

Yep, I consider myself an artist.

x2.