Para las Mujeres! Women in Improv!

[Spots]

So you're saying that it is wrong for someone to say, "I want to be in an all male troupe because I feel comfortable there"?

i think it's less that, and more that it would be absurd (not "wrong") for someone to say "well, if THEY can have an all Mexican/Asian/black/female troupe, why can't WE have an all white/male troupe? that's racist/sexist! we're being discriminated against/discriminated against!" ;)

Well. Yeah. Thanks for articulating my point, Jordan. Absurd is the perfect word... this reversal is kooky.. it's out in the stratosphere. Because the minority has a distinctly framed window from the majority. From which they see the world. Their perspective is exclusively that of the minority.

I think the proposed reversal attempts to deny them their distinct frame. This theoretical begs, "well hey! what about us??? you know.... the MAJORITY. When's it going to be OUR turn???"

Garbled message indeed. Yet this theoretical comes up frequently. I wager this kind of reversal is presented every other day on fox news.

[Spots]

Example: (I've seen this before)

"A man applied at Hooters and was immediately turned away because he's a man. Shouldn't he file discrimination charges???"

Well... he can. But his outlook is distorted. Everyone knows Hooters is Hooters because of hooters. That's their brand. That's their brand because society is OK with "Bikinis" and "Bongos" and "Juggs" and "Twin Peaks" as proper chain restaurants.

I don't see silly penis related restaurants. There aren't enough to build a case that men are being exploited, anyway.

So the consensus would say that the minority is still women in this situation. Not men who hopelessly try to work at these chains. (but I won't make that argument here.) My point is... look how garbled it gets!

[B. Tribe]

"A man applied at Hooters and was immediately turned away because he's a man. Shouldn't he file discrimination charges???"

Quick (related) anecdote: My college improv group would 'initiate' the new members by making them do something public and embarrassing. We made two of them go into Hooters dressed as chicks. One of them would apply and the other would caution his 'sister' about running away and trying to get a job at Hooters. The manager didn't even blink and eye, gave him the application and a pen and thanked him for applying. I'm sure he was just covering his ass to avoid any possible lawsuits.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

I don't see silly penis related restaurants. There aren't enough to build a case that men are being exploited, anyway.

no matter HOW many times i try to get one off the ground...

[PyroDan]

ALL penis related restaurants are silly.

[Pdyx]

I know it means something different when we're talking about this, but women aren't a minority. They're roughly half the population and I think may actually be a majority (just barely). I'm not saying women are given equal treatment or equal pay or opportunites or anything else like that. I'm just curious about the use of the term minority in that situation, where clearly they aren't a minority in terms of numbers.

[Jastroch]

I know it means something different when we're talking about this, but women aren't a minority. They're roughly half the population and I think may actually be a majority (just barely). I'm not saying women are given equal treatment or equal pay or opportunites or anything else like that. I'm just curious about the use of the term minority in that situation, where clearly they aren't a minority in terms of numbers.

I wasn't thinking that women were a minority. I was conducting a thought experiment. If it's okay for a woman to want their own space and a man to want his own space, is it therefore okay for, say, blacks and whites to want their own space. And if not, why not?

[Brad Hawkins]

I know it means something different when we're talking about this, but women aren't a minority. They're roughly half the population and I think may actually be a majority (just barely). I'm not saying women are given equal treatment or equal pay or opportunites or anything else like that. I'm just curious about the use of the term minority in that situation, where clearly they aren't a minority in terms of numbers.

They are in the improv community, but I see your point. There are areas of society -- such as college admissions -- where women are in fact the majority. Different terminology would be appropriate there. But when talking about women in improv, it still works.

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

the semantics at work have less to do with demographic statistics, i imagine, and more to do with how a group is made to feel by the status quo and prevalent power structures and social paradigms. women are, last i heard, in a slight majority over men percentage wise in the global population, but still very oppressed, maligned, abused and disenfranchised in almost every corner of the globe. it's easy to feel like a minority as a group when you're made to feel like less than a person as an individual.

but yeah, i'm sure there's a more accurate term to be used in this particular instance...damned if i can think of it, though...

[York99]

... this reversal is kooky.. it's out in the stratosphere. Because the minority has a distinctly framed window from the majority. From which they see the world. Their perspective is exclusively that of the minority.

I think the whole minority argument doesn't pass the sniff test. Someone already pointed out that women are not a minority. So it's been debunked among gender lines. But what would you think about an all-white improv troupe from Nigeria? It still sounds racist, doesn't it? And that would be a stark minority of whites in a black majority.

I think the fact is that there IS a double standard. It's OK to intentionally group any division of people as long as its not a group that has the perception of having historic power (and thus the perception of oppression) (i.e. white males, Christians, bullies).

I'm not judging right or wrong here. It just seems like this is the situation that we're in at this place and time in history.

[Brad Hawkins]

I think the fact is that there IS a double standard. It's OK to intentionally group any division of people as long as its not a group that has the perception of having historic power (and thus the perception of oppression) (i.e. white males, Christians, bullies).

That's exactly what it is. It's about the historical power (in most cases, continuing) power dynamic. The powerful (in most cases, the majority) do not need to have their rights or identity protected; society as a whole does a fine job of that. So when white people, straight people, men, etc. band together in celebration of their identity, it comes across as inappropriate given that there are so many ways that identity is already validated. (Which month is white history month? January through December.)

[jillybee72]

I think the fact is that there IS a double standard. It's OK to intentionally group any division of people as long as its not a group that has the perception of having historic power (and thus the perception of oppression) (i.e. white males, Christians, bullies).

We've already given several examples of all-white-male groups defined by identity that exist and are popular. There are also plenty of Christian improv groups, identified as such.

[mpbrockman]

Enjoy it while it lasts, folks. The percentage of non-Hispanic whites in the U.S. is down to 63.7% and dropping. The sex ratio gets skewed because women have it over us in sheer damn longevity. The ratio of men to women is about 1.04/1 at birth and stays close to that until age 65 after which it drops off sharply to around .75/1

Note: the urban myth that made the rounds stating "Juan" is the most popular baby name in Texas is just that - a myth. However, for boys last year, "Jose" was #2 in TX and "Angel" was #5.

Of course numbers don't translate to power. Nevertheless...

Power, white brothers!!!

[kaci_beeler]

I know it means something different when we're talking about this, but women aren't a minority. They're roughly half the population and I think may actually be a majority (just barely). I'm not saying women are given equal treatment or equal pay or opportunites or anything else like that. I'm just curious about the use of the term minority in that situation, where clearly they aren't a minority in terms of numbers.

One of the definitions of minority is "a part of a population differing from others in some characteristics and often subjected to differential treatment" - Merriam-Webster Dictionary
In this case, we're referring to "Minority groups" in particular.

And since we're on the subject, I want to go into this further, to clear up any ambiguity about the term.

What is a Minority Group?
A subordinate group whose members have significantly less control or power over their lives than members of a dominant or majority group

Not limited to mathematical minority: Examples: Blacks in South Africa, Blacks in Mississippi and South Carolina in the 1920's.

Interchangeable with subordinate group

A group that experiences a narrowing of opportunities (success, education, wealth, etc) that is disproportionately low compared to their numbers in the society

Characteristics of a Minority Group

-Distinguishing physical or cultural traits, e.g. skin color or language
-Unequal Treatment and Less Power over their lives
-Involuntary membership in the group (no personal choice)
-Awareness of subordination and strong sense of group solidarity
-High In-group Marriage (not applicable for gender in this case)

Males are a social majority; women demonstrate four out of five characteristics of minority status.

Source: http://academic.udayton.edu/race/01race/minor01.htm

[mpbrockman]

There are also plenty of Christian improv groups, identified as such.

Really? I have a suggestion - Bryan Fischer in hell.