Just Curious

[mpbrockman]

In a related observation; it's worth noting that the lengthening of childhood/adolescence is now becoming institutionalized, as Obamacare includes the provision that dependent children up to age 26 can stay on their parents' health plans.

Is this not, at some level, governmental recognition of a new sociological reality?

Of course, this does nothing to refute what Kathy has to say about choice. She's largely correct (although we could spin off into some interesting new findings in neuroscience re brain development here). It's just another reflection of what is happening, rather than what can/could/should be.

[mpbrockman]

A lenghty NYTimes article that might be relevant to this discussion:
"Why are so many people in their 20s taking so long to grow up?"

Nice find, Peter. "Emerging adulthood" - I like that. I'm also knocked out that they mentioned the N.I.M.H. studies (the findings I referred to above while we were xposting). New information is pouring in every day, and the idea that the pre-frontal cortex continues to develop makes for a fascinating platform for speculation. Bummer that their oldest early-baseline test subjects are about 25, we're just going to have to wait.

Thhhhhpbt.

Careful now, Kathy. If brain development is highly individualized - it could knock your "we always have a choice" idea down a peg or two.

[KathyRose]

How do you feel that having a choice in the age we act (a specific individual choice) is contradictory to what I've written (in very general terms) above?

I might have misinterpreted your intent, but when you said, "we seem to have gotten the increase more at the ends of the spectrum in the form of extended childhoods and extended senescence," I took that to mean that the number of "productive years" in the middle remained about the same. We would just fart around longer before "growing up" and linger in decrepitude at the other end.

I'm suggesting, instead, that the "ramp up" and "ramp down" on the "age versus vitality (or whatever you want to call it)" graph don't necessarily have to have more gradual slopes on either end; that the optimal years in the middle could very well be where the extension occurs if we choose to make it so.

The example I gave for "what could be" on the senior end was my mother, who enjoyed an amazingly vibrant life until the age of 95, with only 5 weeks of incapacitation (at a precipitous rate) at the very end.

As far as the rate of growing up goes, it's probably just as fast as it needs to be for survival, which is very individualized, based on many factors both external & self-imposed. In other words, you probably grow up as fast as you think you need to.

Examples:
- My husband's older daughter was functioning as an adult by the age of 14 because she "had to" take care of her 3 younger siblings. Her parents were divorced. Her mother was bipolar and often incapable of taking care of herself. Still, it was her choice to step up to the plate.
- On the other end of the spectrum, my brother had a roommate at UT (circa 1970) who was in his 8th year of post-graduate studies in linquistics. He was enjoying life as a student, and his family could afford to let him stay there as long as he wanted.

[Spots]

Nice poll. This is good reference material for my side project.

[mpbrockman]

Well Kathy, one can always provide exceptions to generalities. I was commenting on what seem to be the prevailing sociological trends, rather than on any individual's life path (which may or may not include extended adolescence or extended senescence).

[Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell]

i think i was born to be somewhere around 25. when i was younger, people always said i looked older and i felt like i was heading towards something...there was a nebulous time between 24 through 26. and now people say i look younger and i feel like i'm leaving something behind/trying to hold on to something.

figures...some people get the wisdom of an old soul or the joy of an inner child. i'm permanently a cocky dumbass who just got out of college.

[Spots]

I also get looks of shock when folks discover I'm older than 25. Let's ride it out however long we can. My dad is 73 and looks 50, I can't hope to be that lucky.

[mpbrockman]

i think i was born to be somewhere around 25.

Ha - my life's goal has always been to be a cranky old man with a twinkle in his eye. I want to act childish when I please and be monstrously rude to the boring and willfully ignorant. I want to laugh with children and piss off self-righteous adults for sport.

Apparently I was born to be a grandparent.

I'd like to think I've made a fine start.

[Spots]

I don't agree that you "were born to be a certain age" but I do think that there are 2 kinds of people, at the very least:

1. Folks who pass through their childhood to reach adulthood. Grown ups.

2. Folks who somehow grow up, but look back at their childhood longingly. Adulthood never seems to really smack them in the face.

The weird thing about the first group is how much they forget, and their inability to empathize with children. Its sort of like "Dude, do you not remember?"

And there's probably a third group who never quite grows up AND also forgets.

[mpbrockman]

The weird thing about the first group is how much they forget, and their inability to empathize with children. Its sort of like "Dude, do you not remember?"

Oh, I think they remember. I just think that they're too wrapped up in their own stage of life to lend import to what children are going through. It's like you're in your teens and your first "serious" girlfriend dumps you; parents (well, mine anyway) hit you with platitudes like "Plenty of fish in the sea" and the infamous "When you're older you'll realize..."

Of course, while logical (and true) this attitude doesn't do a damn thing to make you feel any better about having your little heart ripped out, stomped on and fed to the cat. If anything, it adds to your demoralization because you're essentially being told that your feelings are baseless.

So while they remember (and even to a certain degree empathize) their perspective is such that what is blazingly important and real to an adolescent barely registers a a blip on their radar. They know we'll get over it; therefore it's not really important, is it?

That's the bit they get wrong.