DRUGS!!!

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DRUGS!!!

Postby mpbrockman » June 3rd, 2011, 3:13 am

Now that I have your attention:

It took an entire commission to back up what I knew intuitively at 15 and had reinforced through reading, history, case studies, personal observation and number crunching of my own.

Actually, anybody even cursorily familiar with the history of the 18th amendment should have seen this coming.

http://www.globalcommissionondrugs.org/Report

I'll save my editorials for now (although I'm chock full of 'em - both from philosophical and on-the-ground standpoints). I'll let y'all read (it's not that long) and see if anybody has any rebuttals not easily smashed to flinders.
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Postby Spots » June 3rd, 2011, 5:42 am

Let's talk about my drug history. I've smoked cannabis a total of ten times. Yeah, more or less ten times. Ten lousy times.

I am in favor of legalizing pot. Why? Because the authorities in Mexico are killing thousands of people a year in the name of the "War On Drugs". People in the United States are creating the demand. We are empowering monopolies in the form of drug cartels. And innocent people are being killed and incarcerated in the name of our impulsive habits.

It's happening. We crave pot. We raise the stakes. Criminals are doing everything they can to get us what we want. This includes killing people. This includes the police killing & jailing innocent people in retaliation. All for something that should be a personal choice.

Legalize pot. This is not to say that I endorse pot like a swimmer endorses corn flakes. I just say give everyone the option to choose. Taboos cause alot of ruckus.

The fact that pot is illegal raises the stakes. It gives people a reason to shoot other people. Take those stakes away by creating a free market where competition drives the marketplace. And not a gun-toting monopoly.

I've heard arguments challenging this viewpoint. Bad arguments. Ill-advised arguments. Now we have world leaders supporting the viewpoint & verifying that the war on drugs is itself a bigger problem than the drugs themselves.
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Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » June 3rd, 2011, 10:55 am

because of the number of people dying in our country and abroad in this false war on drugs.

because of the number of citizens taking up space in our justice and penal systems whose crime hurt no one, hardly even themselves.

because of the industries that pump us full of chemicals in our food, drink and medicine to keep us docile and complacent while criminalizing a natural product that grows on God's own green Earth with a bevy of industrial and medicinal uses beyond the recreational use that has no more health detriment than legal products like alcohol, cigarettes or a double cheeseburger.

legalize it.
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Postby MitchellD » June 3rd, 2011, 12:31 pm

Legalizing pot (I'm not too sure about the others, but since pot is mainstream) would:

- Unclog the legal system and jails (which account for some of the most arrests)
- Allow for a hemp industry to grow, allowing for a plant which can be used for livestock food, a regenerating source of paper (no more deforesting for paper reasons), rope, biofuel, and much more.
- Create a new source of income for taxes
- Not...really dangerous. Unless you just inhale deeply. But that's just because it's smoking
- Allow for medical use, as it helps a ton of stuff
- break down the cartels (fighting over marijuana trade would be like fighting over the apple or tobacco trade, and the US would be able to make it's own.

And other stuff but I don't want to spend an hour on this

Also, I think the whole gateway drug thing comes from the illegal status. The dealers are the ones who might carry other things as well and could offer. Then some people get in relationships with shady characters and are worse off (I've known a few people in that situation). However, if you could just buy it from a store, i think a lot of that temptation would be avoided.
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Postby LuBu McJohnson » June 3rd, 2011, 9:32 pm

Yeah, legalize pot. Possibly shrooms, but let's crawl before we walk. Nothing any harder than that, though.

Also, why is salvia legal? That doesn't really seem like a drug anyone would enjoy...
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Postby mpbrockman » June 4th, 2011, 1:15 pm

LuBu McJohnson wrote:Yeah, legalize pot. Possibly shrooms, but let's crawl before we walk. Nothing any harder than that, though.


Probably a good idea. The paper suggests experimentation with models of decriminalization and de-stigmatization - not necessarily wholesale legalization of everything. Although the case study of the Netherlands is revealing. The average age of heroin addicts is rising, meaning they're not creating new addicts at a significant rate. Given the puritanical background of the U.S. though, I suspect baby steps are appropriate (not to mention politically necessary).

LuBu McJohnson wrote:Also, why is salvia legal? That doesn't really seem like a drug anyone would enjoy...


Well, hell, Bryan - by that argument - legalize crack. Ever seen anyone who tinkers with that? You watch a person go from a standing start to instantly paranoid, shaking and craving and have to wonder, "Uh, when does the fun part begin?"
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Postby LuBu McJohnson » June 4th, 2011, 5:20 pm

mpbrockman wrote:
Well, hell, Bryan - by that argument - legalize crack. Ever seen anyone who tinkers with that? You watch a person go from a standing start to instantly paranoid, shaking and craving and have to wonder, "Uh, when does the fun part begin?"


Aw man, if crack was legal...I don't have anything for that other than "crack would be totally legal!" Make of it what you will.
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Postby SarahMarie » June 7th, 2011, 4:12 pm

Legalize it please. Tax it. Regulate it and let the free market make it better.
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Postby Spots » June 7th, 2011, 7:23 pm

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Postby MitchellD » June 8th, 2011, 12:42 am

So I see the number come up that 160 million people in the US have used marijuana. So .... over half the people have used it?
Over half of the people in the U.S. didn't die from taking this illegal agent?
Over half of the people in the U.S. didn't murder the other half of the U.S.?

If the majority of the U.S. has used it, why is it illegal?
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Postby mpbrockman » June 8th, 2011, 3:13 am

MitchellD wrote:If the majority of the U.S. has used it, why is it illegal?


For the same reason people vote GOP when it's clearly not in their best economic interests. "Values", "morals", the deeply Puritanical streak in America that fears above all that somebody, somewhere is having a good time. These are the same people who vote for the candidate that's going to slash their pensions, eliminate their right to collectively bargain etc. because they promise to put the 10 Commandments on the courthouse lawn.

Eh, I've done this rant in more detail here.
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Postby Spots » June 8th, 2011, 3:41 am

MitchellD wrote:So I see the number come up that 160 million people in the US have used marijuana.


Let's not jump to conclusions. First, Mitchell, where did you get your numbers? Those numbers support my own viewpoint but they appear unsubstantiated. That's the supposed number of marijuana users worldwide, based on some lousy statistic that's been past around for years.

http://www.drugfree.org/join-together/d ... licit-drug
Last edited by Spots on June 8th, 2011, 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby MitchellD » June 8th, 2011, 3:52 am

Spots wrote:
MitchellD wrote:So I see the number come up that 160 million people in the US have used marijuana.


Let's not jump to conclusions. First, Mitchell, where did you get your numbers? Those numbers support my own viewpoint but they appear unsubstantiated. That's the supposed number of drug users worldwide, based on some lousy statistic that's been past around for years.

http://www.drugfree.org/join-together/d ... licit-drug


Page F of the link in the top comment.

Also, saw the same data on CNN.
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Postby mpbrockman » June 8th, 2011, 3:53 am

Spots wrote:
MitchellD wrote:So I see the number come up that 160 million people in the US have used marijuana.


Let's not jump to conclusions. First, Mitchell, where did you get your numbers? Those numbers support my own viewpoint but they appear unsubstantiated.


Yeah, about the highest reputable number I can find (from SAMDHA) is approximately 95M. Of course these figures reflect only the number of people who are willing to admit marijuana use to a stranger. So we can safely count on some fairly serious under-reportage. Still, 160M? That's quite a leap.
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Postby MitchellD » June 8th, 2011, 3:55 am

Oh. Nevermind then. Ha... it did say United Nations. Woops. Why would that even be reported data when US drug policy is the context?.....
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