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Postby mpbrockman » February 18th, 2011, 10:05 am

Spots wrote:Brockman, you may be looking at environment through antiquated glasses. The environment 200 years from now may be effected by pollution, cataclysmic events, socio political doctrines, disease, famine, lack of resources, extinction of various species, slight changes in climate, pop culture OR lack of all these things. Each of them represents a wide spectrum of possibility. A wide wide spectrum of possibility.


Nothing controversial there. It's going to be interesting to watch the great infectious agent v. antibiotic race during our lifetime. What happens when vancomycin begins to fail on a large scale?

Spots wrote:It's very well possible that we will all reside in clay huts. Then again a few us may live in colonies on Mars, representing new ecosystems of their own.


Heck, a couple of generations of Mars-g-bred humans would be all it would take to have 9 foot tall kids! Yikes! If we managed to generate some sort of thin atmosphere over a few centuries we'd get the Andean chest depth adaptation plus some, too. Can we send our pollution there? Hydrocarbons would help. Ooooh - better idea. Nudge a carbonaceous chondrite asteroid into an orbit in which it would burn up in Mars atmosphere. Add H2O vapor and carbon at the same time!

Spots wrote:Maybe you are referring to bootstrapping extragenetic & extrasomatic information. These concepts are not synonymous with the common term "evolution."

What you basically told me was that I'm only thinking of biological evolution in regards to biology.

Well, Guilty as charged.


You're right. I'm borrowing a bit from Dan Dennett and (if you go back far enough) Doug Hofstadter and playing around with the definition of "evolution" to include non-biological or biological-but-brought-about-by-synthetic-environmental-means et al. I find it entertaining - and I think that technology can, as extension, arguably be considered a part of human evolution.

I'm not taking issue with any of what you've said regarding the continuing evolution of the neocortex or any other biological system. It might shortly be very advantageous to be able to breathe high concentrations of CO2. I'm simply trying to throw in/broaden ("bootstrap", if you like) some other sources of information.

I would like to hear you speak a little more about how you think "pop culture", given it's transient nature, plays a role in evolution. I would think pop culture trends would tend to even and cancel each other out over time.

Unless, of course we're going 'butterfly effect" and dragging chaos theory in here as well. :?
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Postby mpbrockman » February 18th, 2011, 10:07 am

Hey, no fair - you added several paragraphs while I was typing the above!

Ugh - gotta go now. I'll check in later.
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Postby Spots » February 18th, 2011, 10:13 am

Pop culture effects public opinion. Public opinion has a huge effect on society. Think about David Letterman's opinions during the 2008 general elections. He swept the floor with John McCain and although you cannot credit Dave with McCain's loss, it had an effect.

(this example is out there) Kim Jong Il loves Hollywood. And porn. For all we know that's all that's keeping him from trying to shoot a nuke at the coast of California. His love for Brad Pitt.

@No fair! ---

I know. I'm a chronic post editor. (this it was mostly reordering. I hope the context remained the same). What happens is that I flesh out my opinions more and more as I type. I can't keep up with all the damn stimuli & I get an itchy trigger finger. I'm going to start using the preview button.

Beginning after this. I'll give you a head start by agreeing not to reply anymore until you get back.
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Postby mpbrockman » February 18th, 2011, 10:20 am

Spots wrote:I'll give you an easier task: Imagine yourself in the 1970's predicting your day to day habits of today. Seems rather impossible.


Depends on when you asked me. If you asked during the late 70s I'd have said I'd be married (close enough), have a kid or two (I've got one), be a musician (yes), and work largely in a music studio (mostly yes).

What I never would have predicted would have been the amount of time I spend in front of computers. Damn, I miss tape. Nothing feels like music to me like the smell of hot 2-inch tape permeating a studio.


mpbrockman wrote:Change it to "Throw Shit Against the Wall and See if it Makes for a Better Wall" and maybe I'll think about it.


Spots wrote:I like the proposed change. I hope it sticks.


:lol:
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Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » February 18th, 2011, 10:29 am

not to get all mod on everyone (since i don't even own a scooter), but there is a whole discussion thread in this very forum (last i checked, it was right below this one) on evolution. so perhaps we can all go show off how smart we are over there as well. ;) and then maybe Christina de Roos will come out of exile and show us all how dumb we are as well. :P that we can get back to talking about what really matters in this thread: porn!

as for David's analogy, i can only paraphrase the prophet 50 Cent...i love God like a fat kid love cake. 8)

(also, if improvisors are the pinnacle of social evolution, we're all in big fucking trouble. :P)
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Postby KathyRose » February 18th, 2011, 10:44 am

Spots wrote:... if it answers your question I predict very little will happen in the next 200 years ( and perhaps the next six thousand years ) in human biological evolution.

Huh?! Haven't you notice how people are significantly taller - not to mention wider - than they were just 100 years ago?

I'd also like to point out that the dinosaurs would still be here (not just in the form of birds) if it hadn't been for that whole Sodom & Gomorrah debacle.
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Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » February 18th, 2011, 10:45 am

KathyRose wrote:
Spots wrote:... if it answers your question I predict very little will happen in the next 200 years ( and perhaps the next six thousand years ) in human biological evolution.

Huh?! Haven't you notice how people are significantly taller - not to mention wider - than they were just 100 years ago?

I'd also like to point out that the dinosaurs would still be here (not just in the form of birds) if it hadn't been for that whole Sodom & Gomorrah debacle.


well, in God's defense on that one, would YOU want to get raped by a bunch of dinosaurs?
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Postby KathyRose » February 18th, 2011, 11:03 am

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote:
KathyRose wrote:
Spots wrote:... if it answers your question I predict very little will happen in the next 200 years ( and perhaps the next six thousand years ) in human biological evolution.

Huh?! Haven't you notice how people are significantly taller - not to mention wider - than they were just 100 years ago?

I'd also like to point out that the dinosaurs would still be here (not just in the form of birds) if it hadn't been for that whole Sodom & Gomorrah debacle.


well, in God's defense on that one, would YOU want to get raped by a bunch of dinosaurs?

In all fairness, I heard it was consensual bestiality.
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Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » February 18th, 2011, 11:12 am

that's what the pro-dinorape media WANTS you to believe!
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Postby Spots » February 18th, 2011, 12:08 pm

KathyRose wrote:Huh?! Haven't you notice how people are significantly taller - not to mention wider - than they were just 100 years ago?


Not all humans are larger. That only counts for industrialized countries where we had better childhood nutrition than ever before. I'd be hard pressed to tell you what the average height change has been worldwide.

Argh, that's totally a mutation. Based on environment. So you're correct... I was originally correct in saying there is simply no way of predicting anything.
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Postby Spots » February 18th, 2011, 12:14 pm

Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote: there is a whole discussion thread in this very forum (last i checked, it was right below this one) on evolution. so perhaps we can all go show off how smart we are over there as well.


That thread opened with a one word post, "kidding". I guess I'm the only one who found a dialog developing here. Thanks "Mr. Second Guess-the-whole-damn-conversation."

Fine. We can go back to calling it free will. Happy? What are your other demands?
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Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » February 18th, 2011, 12:30 pm

Spots wrote:
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote: there is a whole discussion thread in this very forum (last i checked, it was right below this one) on evolution. so perhaps we can all go show off how smart we are over there as well.


That thread opened with a one word post, "kidding". I guess I'm the only one who found a dialog developing here. Thanks "Mr. Second Guess-the-whole-damn-conversation." :P

Fine. We can go back to calling it free will. Happy? What are your other demands?


yeah, but it evolved from there. (see what i did? :p)

sorry, it's my old internet forum moderator days rearing their ugly head. off topic discussion makes my eye twitch. :p
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Postby Spots » February 18th, 2011, 12:32 pm

Unless you ignore word association for context.


The redirect really did irk me a bit, not going to lie. Granted, I've been an outspoken dick and nobody has said anything. Fair is fair.
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Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » February 18th, 2011, 1:06 pm

well, i have no official authority so it's not like you HAVE to do it. more a helpful suggestion to increase participation in other threads as well. ;)
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Postby KathyRose » February 18th, 2011, 4:09 pm

Spots wrote:Granted, I've been an outspoken dick and nobody has said anything.

I must say, I've been surprised, myself. You might recall, under a movie thread (a movie thread, of all things!) how brutally my personal character was attacked for having what I thought was an amiable and intelligent discussion with you, over whether or not "Get Low" had a protagonist. WTF?

Anyway . . . thought I'd mention that it isn't only Man who has Free Will. Every day, I watch my kitteh, Miss Penelope, make decisions. She strategizes, uses deductive reasoning and makes heroic attempts at communicating with me. She also knows Right from Wrong. She knows that she's not allowed to jump onto kitchen counters, bathroom vanities or dining tables. Yet, when she's sitting on my lap beside the kitchen table, she'll tentatively reach a paw to see if it's permitted now...? (No.)

I have no way of knowing what else she thinks about, but I have no doubt at all that she is a creature with intelligence and reasoning capability, however limited. I'm not suggesting that her kind will ever be on par with us. Only that we are so puffed up with our sense of self-importance that we can't even imaging what kind of spiritual connection other creatures on this Earth might have with God(s).

Keep in mind that my thinking has been tempered by early exposure to "City" by Clifford D. Simak.
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