well past jaded

If you must!

Moderators: happywaffle, arclight

Postby Jeff » April 19th, 2010, 4:27 pm

the_reverend wrote:i love the irony that they're playing EXACTLY into South Park's hands. i'd love to see Matt and Trey take on this guy directly. satire does more to undermine, demean and destroy guys like this than bullets ever could. Obama should form an elite lampoon hit squad. :p


So I went to that radical Muslim website, and was surprised to be able to screen-capture this image of Muhammad there. I mean, wait, what?

Image
User avatar
Jeff
 
Posts: 2257
Joined: April 22nd, 2007, 3:15 am

Postby York99 » April 19th, 2010, 6:27 pm

mpbrockman wrote:Justin - how much information will it take for you to decide removing this guy from the planet would be a boon?


There's never ENOUGH info to have someone killed and I'm very far from an expert at foreign relations. Truth be told, I often fast forward through coverage of the "War on Terror" because there's so much confusion and such a lack of complete information that it kind of bores me after the whole thing appalls me.*

I'm just saying that at the very least, let's hear from the side that's being accused of being unconstitutional.

*Though in all honesty, I was glad to hear that we killed the Al Qaeda number 1 and number 2 guys today, and I don't even know their names or what they did. It pains me to phrase it like this, but I trust that our government made the right call there. Yes, in some instances, I trust the government.
"Every cat dies 9 times, but every cat does not truly live 9 lives."
-Bravecat

Image
User avatar
York99
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: April 12th, 2006, 8:47 am
Location: There

Postby York99 » April 19th, 2010, 6:33 pm

Jeff wrote:...to be able to screen-capture this image of Muhammad there. I mean, wait, what?


You just made their list, Buddy. Good luck with that.

I watched the episode just this morning and they never actually showed him. I think that screen capture must actually be some other Muslim... I think.
"Every cat dies 9 times, but every cat does not truly live 9 lives."
-Bravecat

Image
User avatar
York99
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: April 12th, 2006, 8:47 am
Location: There

Postby Marc Majcher » April 19th, 2010, 7:59 pm

The Price of Assassination

"You might as well try to end the personal computer business by killing executives at Apple and Dell."
The Bastard
Improv For Evil
"new goal: be quoted in Marc's signature." - Jordan T. Maxwell
User avatar
Marc Majcher
 
Posts: 1621
Joined: January 24th, 2006, 1:40 am
Location: Austin, TX

Postby Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell » April 19th, 2010, 8:00 pm

they pictured him on their website! let the infidels fall on their own righteous swords...and leave the rest of us to proceed out of the 11th century. :p

York99 wrote:
Jeff wrote:...to be able to screen-capture this image of Muhammad there. I mean, wait, what?


You just made their list, Buddy. Good luck with that.

I watched the episode just this morning and they never actually showed him. I think that screen capture must actually be some other Muslim... I think.


no, it's from the episode they DID show him in years ago with the Super Best Friends, as referenced in the very episode you watched this morning. that's always been one of the sticking points for Trey and Matt, is they depicted Mohammed YEARS ago with no hoopla whatsoever, but all of a sudden they weren't allowed to have him in an episode satirizing the death threats and protests brought about by the political cartoons featuring Mohammed...which then inspired the two parter lampooning Family Guy.

and now you know...the rest of the story.
Sweetness Prevails.

-the Reverend
User avatar
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell
 
Posts: 4215
Joined: March 17th, 2006, 6:50 pm
Location: Austin, TX

Postby mpbrockman » April 20th, 2010, 2:24 am



Really, this guy has a job in journalism? No viable alternative viewpoint and the author spends enough time qualifying anything that might be construed as an opinion that he doesn't actually have to have one.

Well, I'm no expert, but I think it might be bad... possibly... unless, of course... but then again...
"He who is not a misanthrope at age forty can never have loved mankind" -Nicolas de Chamfort
www.perfectlyreasonabledreams.com
http://www.facebook.com/mpbrockman
User avatar
mpbrockman
 
Posts: 2734
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 6:26 pm
Location: ATX

Postby Jeff » April 20th, 2010, 5:41 am

York99 wrote:
Jeff wrote:...to be able to screen-capture this image of Muhammad there. I mean, wait, what?


You just made their list, Buddy. Good luck with that.

Actually, I and the entire Austin Improv Community just made their list, because I posted an image of Muhammad on the AIC forums, and as long as the image remains there, it's implicitly acceptable to the AIC.

I still want to hear the fundamentalist Muslim argument that explains why it's okay to show an image of Muhammad on a fundamentalist Muslim website that speaks out against the use of any and all images of Muhammad. Seriously, how does that work? (And I say "seriously," but I mostly view that whole absurd dogma-logic as funny, and I'd want to hear that argument so I could have a good laugh about it.)
User avatar
Jeff
 
Posts: 2257
Joined: April 22nd, 2007, 3:15 am

Postby mpbrockman » April 20th, 2010, 9:10 pm

York99 wrote:
mpbrockman wrote:Justin - how much information will it take for you to decide removing this guy from the planet would be a boon?


There's never ENOUGH info to have someone killed...

I was glad to hear that we killed the Al Qaeda number 1 and number 2 guys today...


Please reconcile.

York99 wrote:I'm just saying that at the very least, let's hear from the side that's being accused of being unconstitutional.


Agreed. A statement from the WH, DOJ or even the spooks would be welcome.
"He who is not a misanthrope at age forty can never have loved mankind" -Nicolas de Chamfort
www.perfectlyreasonabledreams.com
http://www.facebook.com/mpbrockman
User avatar
mpbrockman
 
Posts: 2734
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 6:26 pm
Location: ATX

Postby mpbrockman » April 20th, 2010, 9:13 pm

Jeff wrote:I still want to hear the fundamentalist Muslim argument that explains why it's okay to show an image of Muhammad on a fundamentalist Muslim website that speaks out against the use of any and all images of Muhammad. Seriously, how does that work?


OK, I'm gonna p*ss somebody off here - but is this like how only African-American people can use the n-word?
"He who is not a misanthrope at age forty can never have loved mankind" -Nicolas de Chamfort
www.perfectlyreasonabledreams.com
http://www.facebook.com/mpbrockman
User avatar
mpbrockman
 
Posts: 2734
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 6:26 pm
Location: ATX

Postby York99 » April 20th, 2010, 11:45 pm

mpbrockman wrote:Please reconcile.


I'm not sure where the inconsistency is... in fact, I'm not sure where the comparison or contrastison (trademark pending) between the two statements is.

Please elaborate.
"Every cat dies 9 times, but every cat does not truly live 9 lives."
-Bravecat

Image
User avatar
York99
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: April 12th, 2006, 8:47 am
Location: There

Postby mpbrockman » April 21st, 2010, 8:11 am

York99 wrote:
mpbrockman wrote:Please reconcile.


I'm not sure where the inconsistency is... in fact, I'm not sure where the comparison or contrastison (trademark pending) between the two statements is.

Please elaborate.



Phrase one indicates a high degree of discomfort with killing ("there can NEVER be enough info") under any circumstance.

Phrase two indicates that two recent killings have made you "glad" despite the fact that you have admitted you (understandably) find foreign policy an abstruse subject.

It is the "NEVER" which makes the two statements read as "contrastisonary" (trademark still pending?), or at the very least - ethically inconsistent. Does "NEVER" admit of exceptions?
"He who is not a misanthrope at age forty can never have loved mankind" -Nicolas de Chamfort
www.perfectlyreasonabledreams.com
http://www.facebook.com/mpbrockman
User avatar
mpbrockman
 
Posts: 2734
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 6:26 pm
Location: ATX

Postby York99 » April 21st, 2010, 8:25 am

mpbrockman wrote:
York99 wrote:
mpbrockman wrote:Please reconcile.


I'm not sure where the inconsistency is... in fact, I'm not sure where the comparison or contrastison (trademark pending) between the two statements is.

Please elaborate.



Phrase one indicates a high degree of discomfort with killing ("there can NEVER be enough info") under any circumstance.

Phrase two indicates that two recent killings have made you "glad" despite the fact that you have admitted you (understandably) find foreign policy an abstruse subject.

It is the "NEVER" which makes the two statements read as "contrastisonary" (trademark still pending?), or at the very least - ethically inconsistent. Does "NEVER" admit of exceptions?


OK, I see what you're saying now. I mean that even if someone tortured and killed my mother in front of me, there would be that inkling of a notion that killing that person would still be immoral. That less than 1% inkling is defeated by my rage and justification for punishment and vengeance.

I think we all make decisions and form opinions that we're not 100% certain about. That's life and human nature.

In the given specific example, I'm glad we killed those guys, but I'm not 100% sure that it was the right thing to do. There are questions that I don't know [Is killing inherently immoral? Was our intel on these guys accurate? Was it worth it considering the collateral damage? Did we just make martyrs out of these guys?] I don't know enough of the story to be totally sure that it was right, but at some point I have to believe that our experts and leaders considered enough of the available evidence to conclude that it was the best course of action at the time.

Morally ambiguous? Is anyone not?
"Every cat dies 9 times, but every cat does not truly live 9 lives."
-Bravecat

Image
User avatar
York99
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: April 12th, 2006, 8:47 am
Location: There

Postby mpbrockman » April 21st, 2010, 9:09 am

the_reverend wrote:...satire does more to undermine, demean and destroy guys like this than bullets ever could.


If only this was true. Unfortunately, satire only works on those who "get" the joke and most of the Muslim world isn't equipped with much in the way of a sense of humor regarding the prophet. Trey and Matt are pretty much singing to the choir on this one.

Hell, theists in general aren't equipped with much of a sense of humor when it comes to their own brand of woo. Figure out what any person really has faith in and poke a stick in it. Have you undermined their faith and/or destroyed them; or are they just red-faced and wondering what circle of hell you'll end up in (or, in more extreme cases, planning this?)

Or if they're Scientologists - they're red-faced and calling Kendrick Moxon.
"He who is not a misanthrope at age forty can never have loved mankind" -Nicolas de Chamfort
www.perfectlyreasonabledreams.com
http://www.facebook.com/mpbrockman
User avatar
mpbrockman
 
Posts: 2734
Joined: April 12th, 2007, 6:26 pm
Location: ATX

Postby York99 » April 21st, 2010, 10:16 am

mpbrockman wrote:
the_reverend wrote:...satire does more to undermine, demean and destroy guys like this than bullets ever could.


If only this was true. Unfortunately, satire only works on those who "get" the joke...


I think there's an argument that it is true, but in cases like this, it's probably a loooooong, slooooooow process.

Some will never get it, but if enough people around them get it and stop taking them seriously, then eventually their power diminishes.

There's a great story in one of Malcolm Gladwell's books about a guy that infiltrated the Klan and then told the writers of the Superman radio show what their secrets were, who incorporated them into their stories. When the Klan members saw that their own children were pretending like they were Superman and defeating the evil Klan and using real secrets, the men felt ridiculous and soon stopped attending meetings.
"Every cat dies 9 times, but every cat does not truly live 9 lives."
-Bravecat

Image
User avatar
York99
 
Posts: 1998
Joined: April 12th, 2006, 8:47 am
Location: There

Postby bradisntclever » April 21st, 2010, 12:16 pm

York99 wrote:There's a great story in one of Malcolm Gladwell's books about a guy that infiltrated the Klan and then told the writers of the Superman radio show what their secrets were, who incorporated them into their stories. When the Klan members saw that their own children were pretending like they were Superman and defeating the evil Klan and using real secrets, the men felt ridiculous and soon stopped attending meetings.


Only because I just read this chapter the other day, I'm pretty sure it's not a Gladwell book - Freakonomics. The man in question is Stetson Kennedy and I did a quick check to see if he appears in a Gladwell book but came up empty-handed.
User avatar
bradisntclever
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1747
Joined: February 27th, 2007, 2:25 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

PreviousNext

Return to Politics and Religion and Stuff Like That

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron