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Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 12:03 pm
by Jastroch
ratliff wrote: So one more qualification for coaching: You're willing and able to to tell a group that you don't think you're right for them, even (especially) when you could really use the money. (Ideally, you also know enough to recommend someone more appropriate.)


I guess I'm a whore, cause I'll coach anyone. That said, I also am straight with them on my relative strengths and weaknesses and POV. I'm not going to tell them what they want to hear. I believe I ave something to offer any troupe.

That said, I do believe in being straight with people when I no longer have anything to offer them. In other words, I encourage people to hire someone else when I've used up my bag of tricks and I think they need a new perspective.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 12:45 pm
by ratliff
Jastroch wrote:
ratliff wrote: So one more qualification for coaching: You're willing and able to to tell a group that you don't think you're right for them, even (especially) when you could really use the money. (Ideally, you also know enough to recommend someone more appropriate.)


I guess I'm a whore, cause I'll coach anyone. That said, I also am straight with them on my relative strengths and weaknesses and POV. I'm not going to tell them what they want to hear. I believe I ave something to offer any troupe.

That said, I do believe in being straight with people when I no longer have anything to offer them. In other words, I encourage people to hire someone else when I've used up my bag of tricks and I think they need a new perspective.


In my heart of hearts, I think I have something to offer everyone. But as you point out, it might not be what they want. I'm thinking particularly of less experienced groups that haven't learned to distinguish between different approaches. I think a lot of narrative groups would benefit from me yelling "STOP TRYING TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN" at them repeatedly, but I can also see how they might find it frustrating.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 12:51 pm
by trabka
ratliff wrote:I think a lot of narrative groups would benefit from me yelling "STOP TRYING TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN" at them repeatedly, but I can also see how they might find it frustrating.


I can vouch for Ratliff yelling at you not to do something for an extend period of time as an effective rehearsal strategy.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 12:55 pm
by Spots
It's what Del would have wanted.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 1:06 pm
by Jastroch
ratliff wrote:In my heart of hearts, I think I have something to offer everyone. But as you point out, it might not be what they want. I'm thinking particularly of less experienced groups that haven't learned to distinguish between different approaches. I think a lot of narrative groups would benefit from me yelling "STOP TRYING TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN" at them repeatedly, but I can also see how they might find it frustrating.


That's my entire coaching strategy.

I've been watching a lot of kitchen nightmares, and lately when I'm coaching, I find myself taking on Gordon Ramsey's mannerisms. You know, giving people makeovers and telling them their food sucks.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 1:17 pm
by ratliff
Jastroch wrote:
I've been watching a lot of kitchen nightmares, and lately when I'm coaching, I find myself taking on Gordon Ramsey's mannerisms. You know, giving people makeovers and telling them their food sucks.


Because you didn't capitalize "kitchen nightmares," I thought for a minute you were using a generic term for crummy scenes that happen in a kitchen. Which is how I will now be using it.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 1:40 pm
by bradisntclever
ratliff wrote:
Jastroch wrote:
I've been watching a lot of kitchen nightmares, and lately when I'm coaching, I find myself taking on Gordon Ramsey's mannerisms. You know, giving people makeovers and telling them their food sucks.


Because you didn't capitalize "kitchen nightmares," I thought for a minute you were using a generic term for crummy scenes that happen in a kitchen. Which is how I will now be using it.


This also reminds me of "Del Close's Kitchen Rules" (aka the "Westminster Place Kitchen Rules" - possibly by Elaine May and Ted Flicker instead of DC)

1) A good improviser accepts offers.
2) A good improviser makes active choices (rather than passive ones).
3) A good improviser justifies.

Most problems in scenework I see usually result from a violation of one of these three rules.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 1:53 pm
by ratliff
bradisntclever wrote:
1) A good improviser accepts offers.
2) A good improviser makes active choices (rather than passive ones).
3) A good improviser justifies.

Most problems in scenework I see usually result from a violation of one of these three rules.


Agreed. And ... I've seen a lot of potentially brilliant scenes ruined by overjustifying, or justifying too literally, or justifying minor anomalies with absurd, unbelievable explanations that sank the scene. I might be tempted to add "A good improviser justifies as simply and realistically as possible," except that then I'd be critiquing Elaine May, which would not be cool.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 4:23 pm
by Spots
bradisntclever wrote:
1) A good improviser accepts offers.
2) A good improviser makes active choices (rather than passive ones).
3) A good improviser justifies.

Most problems in scenework I see usually result from a violation of one of these three rules.



Quite a few scenes contain all these components and bomb miserably for lack of charm / lack of feeling grounded. I can actively decide to be a toaster flying to the moon and justify every offer within that universe but the audience isn't going to believe me.

So I guess that's mine:

1.) A good improviser stays grounded or stays charming.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 4:42 pm
by Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell
i don't know, man...doing enough Spirited and Pick Your Own Path makes me think a toaster flying to the moon scene could enchant the fuck out of the right audience. ;) as long as YOU buy into the reality, that's all the grounded you need. and charm ain't nothing but engagement. and if you don't have that, why are you onstage to begin with? 8)

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 4:43 pm
by bradisntclever
Spots wrote:
bradisntclever wrote:
1) A good improviser accepts offers.
2) A good improviser makes active choices (rather than passive ones).
3) A good improviser justifies.

Most problems in scenework I see usually result from a violation of one of these three rules.



Quite a few scenes contain all these components and bomb miserably for lack of charm / lack of feeling grounded. I can actively decide to be a toaster flying to the moon and justify every offer within that universe but the audience isn't going to believe me.

These are some great rules but you could never point to one of the three and fix every scene. It's a balancing act.


I guess that's mine:

1. Be grounded or be charming.


I don't think you understand. These rules aren't a recipe for guaranteed success in every scene. These are behaviors that come naturally for good improvisers.

There's no one magic formula for a great improv scene. There's also no great rationale as to why the scene you proposed couldn't go well in a show. You can take great scenes from several legendary shows and give inexperienced improvisers the exact same characters, scenarios, whatever and watch those scenes tank.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 4:51 pm
by Spots
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote: as long as YOU buy into the reality, that's all the grounded you need.


That is the definition of grounded.


And Brad, I do understand. I wasn't offering a recipe for success. I don't think there is a list of things good improvisers do and do not do.

Obviously yes, please accept offers. Obviously yes. That's a good habit. OK now we are on the same page.

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 7th, 2013, 5:34 pm
by Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell
Spots wrote:
Rev. Jordan T. Maxwell wrote: as long as YOU buy into the reality, that's all the grounded you need.


That is the definition of grounded.


and that's why i said it. ;)

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 8th, 2013, 12:21 am
by TexasImprovMassacre
Aden wrote:These are all things I do as a choach .


heh!

Re: Fee for coaching

PostPosted: January 12th, 2013, 9:56 pm
by Aden
TexasImprovMassacre wrote:
Aden wrote:These are all things I do as a choach .


heh!


oh dear.